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Averoff
Turkish fleet lol
willste mich verarschen??
das mit sister und brother nations habe ich auch gepostet
also weiß ich gar nicht was du von mir willst
das zitat stammt von alexander selbst ob dus annerkennst oder nicht ist nicht mein problem fyromer
das alex es gesagt hat ist nicht zu leugnen
ebenso wie diese zahlreiche zitate
ur enemies are Medes and Persians, men who for centuries have lived soft and luxurious lives; we of Macedon for generations past have been trained in the hard school of danger and war. Above all, we are free men, and they are slaves. There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service — but how different is their cause from ours! They will be fighting for pay — and not much of at that; we, on the contrary, shall fight for Greece, and our hearts will be in it. As for our foreign troops — Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians, Agrianes — they are the best and stoutest soldiers in Europe, and they will find as their opponents the slackest and softest of the tribes of Asia. And what, finally, of the two men in supreme command? You have Alexander, they — Darius!
Addressing his troops prior to the Battle of Issus, as quoted in Anabasis Alexandri by Arrian Book II, 7
oviel zu euren argument das griechen auf den seiten der eprser gekämpft haben
es waren nur söldner
manchmal fidne ichs lustig was alex alles gesgat hat
als ob er gewusst hätte das in 2500 jahren irgendwelche slawen kommen und alles beanspruchen
ouths of the Pellaians and of the Macedonians and of the Hellenic Amphictiony and of the Lakedaimonians and of the Corinthians… and of all the Hellenic peoples, join your fellow-soldiers and entrust yourselves to me, so that we can move against the barbarians and liberate ourselves from the Persian bondage, for as Greeks we should not be slaves to barbarians.
As quoted in the Historia Alexandri Magni of Pseudo-Kallisthenes, 1.15.1-4
Now you fear punishment and beg for your lives, so I will let you free, if not for any other reason so that you can see the difference between a Greek king and a barbarian tyrant, so do not expect to suffer any harm from me. A king does not kill messengers.
As quoted in the Historia Alexandri Magni of Pseudo-Kallisthenes, 1.37.9-13
die liste ist lang
Zuletzt bearbeitet:
Zoran
Μακεδоν τ
willste mich verarschen??
das mit sister und brother nations habe ich auch gepostet
also weiß ich gar nicht was du von mir willst
das zitat stammt von alexander selbst ob dus annerkennst oder nicht ist mein problem fyromer
das alex es gesagt hat ist nicht zu leugnen
ebenso wie diese zahlreiche zitate
ur enemies are Medes and Persians, men who for centuries have lived soft and luxurious lives; we of Macedon for generations past have been trained in the hard school of danger and war. Above all, we are free men, and they are slaves. There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service — but how different is their cause from ours! They will be fighting for pay — and not much of at that; we, on the contrary, shall fight for Greece, and our hearts will be in it. As for our foreign troops — Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians, Agrianes — they are the best and stoutest soldiers in Europe, and they will find as their opponents the slackest and softest of the tribes of Asia. And what, finally, of the two men in supreme command? You have Alexander, they — Darius!
Addressing his troops prior to the Battle of Issus, as quoted in Anabasis Alexandri by Arrian Book II, 7
oviel zu euren argument das griechen auf den seiten der eprser gekämpft haben
es waren nur söldner
manchmal fidne ichs lustig was alex alles gesgat hat
als ob er gewusst hätte das in 2500 jahren irgendwelche slawen kommen und alles beanspruchen
ouths of the Pellaians and of the Macedonians and of the Hellenic Amphictiony and of the Lakedaimonians and of the Corinthians… and of all the Hellenic peoples, join your fellow-soldiers and entrust yourselves to me, so that we can move against the barbarians and liberate ourselves from the Persian bondage, for as Greeks we should not be slaves to barbarians.
As quoted in the Historia Alexandri Magni of Pseudo-Kallisthenes, 1.15.1-4
Now you fear punishment and beg for your lives, so I will let you free, if not for any other reason so that you can see the difference between a Greek king and a barbarian tyrant, so do not expect to suffer any harm from me. A king does not kill messengers.
As quoted in the Historia Alexandri Magni of Pseudo-Kallisthenes, 1.37.9-13
die liste ist lang
Bitte ein Link aus einer akademischen Lektüre der diesen Wortlaut beinhaltet den du von Wikipedia sonst immer kopierst.
PS: Ein paar Seiten weiter zurück haben wir Dank Yunan das mit Persien erklärt bekommen, die akademische Welt geht davon aus das das Propaganda gewesen ist. Leuchtet auch ein, wie sonst hätte Makedonien die Griechen zum mitmachen gewinnen können.
Bezolovno
Gesperrt
nein das ist absolut realistisch das Mazedonien nicht lange so da sein wird. Die Albaner haben da ganz andere Pläne; siehe Kosovo.
Skitnik
Mamibümsler
schön, ich spreche makedonisch, welches eine slavische sprache ist. Was nicht bedeutet dass wir weniger ähnlich sprechen. unsere sprache hat vieles von dem was vor jahrhunderten auf dem balkan gesprochenwurde. es gibt zahlreiche theorien die besagen dass die slavischen sprachen den antiken sprachen am südbalkan entsprangen.
was die antiken makedonen sprachen ist ein historischer streitpunkt, nicht nur unter uns griechen u. mazedonier. ich denke dass keine in diesem forum kompetent genug ist um darüber zu argumentieren.
ich finde es schade dass ihr der ansicht seit, nicht gemeinsam an etwas teilhaben zu dürfen was eigentlich sehr verwaschene geschichte ist. denn keiner kann mir beweisen dass ich kein makedone bin, oder dass er makedone ist. so siehts aus.
Zoran
Μακεδоν τ
Das die Albaner Pläne haben, mag sein und ist auch bestimmt so - doch alleine können und werden sie diese nicht umsetzen (können).
Averoff
Turkish fleet lol
Bitte ein Link aus einer akademischen Lektüre der diesen Wortlaut beinhaltet den du von Wikipedia sonst immer kopierst.
PS: Ein paar Seiten weiter zurück haben wir Dank Yunan das mit Persien erklärt bekommen, die akademische Welt geht davon aus das das Propaganda gewesen ist. Leuchtet auch ein, wie sonst hätte Makedonien die Griechen zum mitmachen gewinnen können.
das mit propaganda ist blödsinn ansonsten hätte er die selbe masche nach der eroberung persiens abgezogen
erklär mir mal wieso die makedonen eifersüchtig auf die perser waren als alexander sie als gleichberechtigt angesehen hat und nicht die griechen???bei den griechen haben die makedonen nicht rumgemukkt wieso???
du bist ein spinner nichts weiter wie oft habe ich akademischen quellenb enutzt und da haste wieder was zu meckern gefunden
du willst akademische quellen über dieses thema da haste sie
100 Modern historians about the greekness of ancient Macedonia :: History Of Macedonia –
R. Malcolm Errington, ‘A History of Macedonia’
University of California Press, February 1993, pg 3
“That the Macedonians and their kings did in fact speak a dialect of Greek and bore Greek names may be regarded nowadays as certain.”
——————-
Page 4
“Ancient allegations that the Macedonians were non-Greeks all had their origin in Athens at the time of the struggle with Philip II. Then as now, political struggle created the prejudice. The orator Aeschines once even found it necessary, in order to counteract the prejudice vigorously fomented by his opponents, to defend Philip on this issue and describe him at a meeting of the Athenian Popular Assembly as being ‘Entirely Greek’. Demosthenes’ allegations were lent on appearance of credibility by the fact, apparent to every observer, that the life-style of the Macedonians, being determined by specific geographical and historical conditions, was different from that of a Greek city-state. This alien way of life was, however, common to western Greeks of Epiros, Akarnania and Aitolia, as well as to the Macedonians, and their fundamental Greek nationality was never doubted. Only as a consequence of the political disagreement with Macedonia was the issue raised at all.”
——————————
Macedonian horsemen together with those of their Thessalian neighbours were later regarded as the BEST IN GREECE, a fact from which extensive horse breeding can be inferred.” -pg 7
—————————
“The Molossians were the strongest and, decisive for Macedonia, most easterly of the three most important Epirote tribes, which, like Macedonia but unlike the Thesprotians and the Chaonians, still retained their monarchy. They were Greeks, spoke a similar dialect to that of Macedonia, suffered just as much from the depredations of the Illyrians and were in principle the natural partners of the Macedonian king who wished to tackle the Illyrian problem at its roots.”
Charles Edson ‘Ancient Macedonian Studies in honor of Charles F. Edson’
“After the end of the Bronze Age another migration of peoples entered the Greek peninsula. These peoples, whom modern scholars call ‘West Greeks’ and of whom the most important single element was the Dorians, came from the rugged Pindos mountains of northwest of the Greek peninsula proper. But the Pindos area with little arable land could not support the expanding population and the lands to the south could no longer receive immigrants from the north. Important West Greek elements remained in the Pindos. These are those whom Herodotus called ‘Makednon ethnos’ and there developed a gradual movement towards the northeast across the Pindos range into the region which was to become known as ‘Upper Macedonia.’ By around 700 we find ‘Macednic’ tribes occupying the eastern slopes of the Pindos.
Among these tribes were the Orestai in the area of Lake Kastoria. From Orestis – as the regions was called – came a clan called the Argeadai, ‘descendants of Argeas”, whose kings claimed descent from the Temenid kings of Argos and thus from Herakles. The validity of this claim was never challenged in antiquity. The Argeadai, in search of fertile land for settlement, moved eastward and occupied the coastal plain along the northwestern shore of the Aegean Sea between Mount Olympus and the Haliakmon River. They expelled the Pieres, who left their name to the region called after them, Pieria. In northwest Pieria, close to the Haliakmon, the kings founded their citadel Aigai where the royal tombs were situated. The next step in the expansion of the Argead kingdom was the expulsion of the Bottiaians. These two regions, Pieria and Bottiaia, were to become the heartland of the kingdom. Unlike their ‘Macednic’ relatives in Upper Macedonian the Argead Macedonians were exposed to all the political and economic currents and cultural influences of the Aegean world.
The basic institutions of the kingdom were those of early Greeks. At the head of the folk was the king who was the war commander and was responsible for the relations of his people with the gods. An assembly of the fighting men chose the new king from the available males of the royal family, usually the oldest son of the former king, and could express the desires and attitudes of the folk. Of high importance were the king’s Companions, the hetairoi. They were the king’s personal retainers. They fought for him in battle and in peace served as he desired. In return they received land grants and other perquisites. In social status and function they recall the Homeric hetairoi of the Achaian rulers. This personal relationship of mutual benefit and obligation was to become the specifically Macedonian system of government. It was solemnized by the festival of the Hetairideia in honour of Zeus Hetairides at which the king presided.
This society had its peculiar customs and practices. There are traces of the blood feud. A Macedonian who had not yet killed an enemy was obliged to wear a halter around his waist. The marriage ceremony was the severing of a loaf of bread by the bride and groom, who then tasted the two portions. Feasting and wassail were the relaxations of the aristocracy and hunting their passionate avocation. In the early spring of each year the formal purification of the army, headed by the king, took place with the fighting men in full panoply. A sham battle ended the purification. Although the basic religion of the Macedonians was Greek, as is shown by the names of the months and by the belief that the folk descended from Makedon, son of Zeus, and the royal family from Herakles, there was strong Thracian influence from the peoples the Macedonians had expelled or subdued. This is the origin of the emotional Sabazios worship among the Macedonians with its local variant of the satyrs, the Sauadai, and bacchantes, Klodones and Mimallones. It is little wonder that to the Greeks of the city-states this society should seem alien, un-Hellenic, or, as they would say, ‘barbarian’.””
A Companion to Ancient Macedonia - Google Bücher
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
passt auf jetzt wird ihn die plattform "www.history-of-macedonia.org"
nicht passen aber das habe ich mit absicht gemacht vor paar tagen hat er die pelagon.de seite als quelle eingegeben mit dem argument pelagon sei nur der übermittler
dieses argument kann ich nun auch auf history of macedonia anwenden
da haste deine akademischen quellen
zoran ganz im ernst du und deine landsleute seid einfach nicht ernstzunehmen ihr klammert euch an jeden einzelnen strohalm fest
wenn ein zitat von von alexander selbst kommt ist die quelle nicht mehr zeitgerecht
postet irgendein spinner irgendeine theorie das slawen schon immer aufm balkan waren saugt das der kleine zoran sofort auf und benutzt diese theorie als quelle
wenn der selbe autor sagen würde makedonen waren griechen und ich hätte diesen typen als quelle genommen dann hätte er die quelle als theorie abgestempelt
es hat keinen sinn einfach mit solchen verblödeten volldeppen zu diskutieren
leb ma weiter in deiner traumwelt und verschließ ganz fest die augen vor der realität vll werden die makedonen dann irgendwann doch slawen
Averoff
Turkish fleet lol
hör dir einfach mal deine sprache an das reicht um zu beweisen das du kein makedone bist
beweis du lieber mal das makedonen keine griechen waren
Zoran
Μακεδоν τ
das mit propaganda ist blödsinn ansonsten hätte er die selbe masche nach der eroberung persiens abgezogen
erklär mir mal wieso die makedonen eifersüchtig auf die perser waren als alexander sie als gleichberechtigt angesehen hat und nicht die griechen???bei den griechen haben die makedonen nicht rumgemukkt wieso???
du bist ein spinner nichts weiter wie oft habe ich akademischen quellenb enutzt und da haste wieder was zu meckern gefunden
du willst akademische quellen über dieses thema da haste sie
P
R. Malcolm Errington, ‘A History of Macedonia’
University of California Press, February 1993, pg 3
“That the Macedonians and their kings did in fact speak a dialect of Greek and bore Greek names may be regarded nowadays as certain.”
——————-
Page 4
“Ancient allegations that the Macedonians were non-Greeks all had their origin in Athens at the time of the struggle with Philip II. Then as now, political struggle created the prejudice. The orator Aeschines once even found it necessary, in order to counteract the prejudice vigorously fomented by his opponents, to defend Philip on this issue and describe him at a meeting of the Athenian Popular Assembly as being ‘Entirely Greek’. Demosthenes’ allegations were lent on appearance of credibility by the fact, apparent to every observer, that the life-style of the Macedonians, being determined by specific geographical and historical conditions, was different from that of a Greek city-state. This alien way of life was, however, common to western Greeks of Epiros, Akarnania and Aitolia, as well as to the Macedonians, and their fundamental Greek nationality was never doubted. Only as a consequence of the political disagreement with Macedonia was the issue raised at all.”
——————————
Macedonian horsemen together with those of their Thessalian neighbours were later regarded as the BEST IN GREECE, a fact from which extensive horse breeding can be inferred.” -pg 7
—————————
“The Molossians were the strongest and, decisive for Macedonia, most easterly of the three most important Epirote tribes, which, like Macedonia but unlike the Thesprotians and the Chaonians, still retained their monarchy. They were Greeks, spoke a similar dialect to that of Macedonia, suffered just as much from the depredations of the Illyrians and were in principle the natural partners of the Macedonian king who wished to tackle the Illyrian problem at its roots.”
Charles Edson ‘Ancient Macedonian Studies in honor of Charles F. Edson’
“After the end of the Bronze Age another migration of peoples entered the Greek peninsula. These peoples, whom modern scholars call ‘West Greeks’ and of whom the most important single element was the Dorians, came from the rugged Pindos mountains of northwest of the Greek peninsula proper. But the Pindos area with little arable land could not support the expanding population and the lands to the south could no longer receive immigrants from the north. Important West Greek elements remained in the Pindos. These are those whom Herodotus called ‘Makednon ethnos’ and there developed a gradual movement towards the northeast across the Pindos range into the region which was to become known as ‘Upper Macedonia.’ By around 700 we find ‘Macednic’ tribes occupying the eastern slopes of the Pindos.
Among these tribes were the Orestai in the area of Lake Kastoria. From Orestis – as the regions was called – came a clan called the Argeadai, ‘descendants of Argeas”, whose kings claimed descent from the Temenid kings of Argos and thus from Herakles. The validity of this claim was never challenged in antiquity. The Argeadai, in search of fertile land for settlement, moved eastward and occupied the coastal plain along the northwestern shore of the Aegean Sea between Mount Olympus and the Haliakmon River. They expelled the Pieres, who left their name to the region called after them, Pieria. In northwest Pieria, close to the Haliakmon, the kings founded their citadel Aigai where the royal tombs were situated. The next step in the expansion of the Argead kingdom was the expulsion of the Bottiaians. These two regions, Pieria and Bottiaia, were to become the heartland of the kingdom. Unlike their ‘Macednic’ relatives in Upper Macedonian the Argead Macedonians were exposed to all the political and economic currents and cultural influences of the Aegean world.
The basic institutions of the kingdom were those of early Greeks. At the head of the folk was the king who was the war commander and was responsible for the relations of his people with the gods. An assembly of the fighting men chose the new king from the available males of the royal family, usually the oldest son of the former king, and could express the desires and attitudes of the folk. Of high importance were the king’s Companions, the hetairoi. They were the king’s personal retainers. They fought for him in battle and in peace served as he desired. In return they received land grants and other perquisites. In social status and function they recall the Homeric hetairoi of the Achaian rulers. This personal relationship of mutual benefit and obligation was to become the specifically Macedonian system of government. It was solemnized by the festival of the Hetairideia in honour of Zeus Hetairides at which the king presided.
This society had its peculiar customs and practices. There are traces of the blood feud. A Macedonian who had not yet killed an enemy was obliged to wear a halter around his waist. The marriage ceremony was the severing of a loaf of bread by the bride and groom, who then tasted the two portions. Feasting and wassail were the relaxations of the aristocracy and hunting their passionate avocation. In the early spring of each year the formal purification of the army, headed by the king, took place with the fighting men in full panoply. A sham battle ended the purification. Although the basic religion of the Macedonians was Greek, as is shown by the names of the months and by the belief that the folk descended from Makedon, son of Zeus, and the royal family from Herakles, there was strong Thracian influence from the peoples the Macedonians had expelled or subdued. This is the origin of the emotional Sabazios worship among the Macedonians with its local variant of the satyrs, the Sauadai, and bacchantes, Klodones and Mimallones. It is little wonder that to the Greeks of the city-states this society should seem alien, un-Hellenic, or, as they would say, ‘barbarian’.””
A Companion to Ancient Macedonia - Google Bücher
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
passt auf jetzt wird ihn die plattform "www.history-of-macedonia.org"
nicht passen aber das habe ich mit absicht gemacht vor paar tagen hat er die pelagon.de seite als quelle eingegeben mit dem argument pelagon sei nur der übermittler
dieses argument kann ich nun auch auf history of macedonia anwenden
da haste deine akademischen quellen
zoran ganz im ernst du und deine landsleute seid einfach nicht ernstzunehmen ihr klammert euch an jeden einzelnen strohalm fest
wenn ein zitat von von alexander selbst kommt ist die quelle nicht mehr zeitgerecht
postet irgendein spinner irgendeine theorie das slawen schon immer aufm balkan waren saugt das der kleine zoran sofort auf und benutzt diese theorie als quelle
wenn ich den selben autor posten würde der behauptet makedonen waren griechen dann hätte er die quelle als theorie abgestempelt
es hat keinen sinn einfach mit solchen verblödeten volldeppen zu diskutieren
leb ma weiter in deiner traumwelt und verschließ ganz fest die augen vor der realität vll werden die makedonen dann irgendwann doch slawen
Weich nicht aus.
Um das geht es
Holy shadows of the dead, I’m not to blame for your cruel and bitter fate, but the accursed rivalry which brought sister nations and brother people, to fight one another. I do not feel happy for this victory of mine. On the contrary, I would be glad, brothers, if I had all of you standing here next to me, since we are united by the same language, the same blood and the same visions
Ich möchte die akademische Qulle sehen aus dem dieser Wortlaut entnommen wurde.
Bei Wikipedia wird als Quelle Rufus angegeben, nicht aber die Literatur aus dem das Zitat stammt.
Und BigMD hat es vortrefflich gesagt, das mit der Sprache ist ein bekannter Streitpunkt, ich habe ebenfalls sehr viele Quellen gepostet die das genaue Gegenteil von deinen zeigen oder diese Tatsache ansprechen, dass es noch nicht geklärt ist welche Sprache die Makedonen als ihre Muttersprache gesprochen haben.
Das die Makedonen am Hof als administrative Sprache das damalige griechisch gesprochen haben liegt außer Frage und ist Fakt. Auch das die mak. Adeligen diese Sprache immer mehr adoptiert haben und verwendet haben.
Genauso ist aber Fakt das nicht nur Makedonen diese Sprache gesprochen haben, auch Thraker und Illyrer verwendeten diese Sprache, Päonier prägten sogar Münzen mit griechischen Buchstaben und Sprache. Und diese alle gelten nicht als Griechen.
Skitnik
Mamibümsler
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