Geschichte und Ende der Juden in Serbien

[Lucky Luke]

In gesamten Territorium Jugoslawien konnten die Juden seit dem 3. Jahrhundert über viele Jahrhunderte hinweg fast unbeschadet leben.

Gab es damals schon Serben auf dem Balkan?

 

[komunist]

In gesamten Territorium Jugoslawien konnten die Juden seit dem 3. Jahrhundert über viele Jahrhunderte hinweg fast unbeschadet leben.

Gab es damals schon Serben auf dem Balkan?

Anfangs 3. Jahrhundert vielleicht nicht, aber die jahrhunderte darauf schon! Gab es zu diesem Zeitpunkt Albaner im Balkan? :roll:

 

[Befehl223]

Resümee;

Lucky, geht es hier um Albaner oder doch um die Juden?[/b]

Der Autor zieht hinsichtlich des Herrenmenschen-Denkens ein Zusammenhang: Für Die Serben sind die Albaner etwas Minderwertigeres.

Kannst Du mir sagen, wie viele Juden schon durch diesen „serbischen Chauvinismus“ ums Leben gekommen sind oder „zumindest“ physischer Gewalt ausgesetzt waren?

Im Artikel steht:

"Im Jahr 1941 zählte die jüdische Gemeinschaft in Beograd 11.870 Mitglieder. Davon wurden durch die deutschen Faschisten mit Hilfe ihrer serbischen Helfer 10.500 getötet."

Aus eigenem Wissen kann ich dem nichts hinzufügen.

Der Autor zieht hinsichtlich des Herrenmenschen-Denkens ein Zusammenhang: Für Die Serben sind die Albaner etwas Minderwertigeres.

Wieso zieht er dann nicht Vergleiche zwischen den Nazis und den Albanern?
Kosovo ist serbenfrei! Welches Herrenmenschendenken? Zu pauschalisieren deutet nicht gerade auf Professionalität.Herr Grimm versucht sein Denken auf andere zu projizieren, das ist nicht mehr sachlich sondern demagogisch.(Und Du tust es ihm gleich)

Im Artikel steht:

"Im Jahr 1941 zählte die jüdische Gemeinschaft in Beograd 11.870 Mitglieder. Davon wurden durch die deutschen Faschisten mit Hilfe ihrer serbischen Helfer 10.500 getötet."

Aus eigenem Wissen kann ich dem nichts hinzufügen.

Hier sollte er sich aber auf die Gegenwart beziehen,denn er schreibt vom „aktuellen“ serbischen Chauvinismus und schlägt eine Brücke zu den Albanern,also ist das völlig aus dem Kontext gerissen.

Zur Tatsache der Abläufe und der dazugehörigen Schicksale der Opfer im 2.WK;Die Juden wurde ebenso wie die Serben deportiert(in Serbien gab es keine Vernichtungslager).In Serbien wurden Juden wie auch Serben,von den Deutschen,Ungarn,Italienern,usw.,ermordet,und sie wurden vom SD oder der Gestapo verfolgt und verhaftet,nicht von den Nedicevci,Cetniks oder Poljska straza,usw.
Herr Grimm schreibt von den Helfern,kann aber nichts konkretes dazu sagen - das nennt man Demagogie!

 

[Partibrejker]

und diesen mann vereehrt metlovic

Nicht nur den....Auch dieser Mladen Schwartz ist genau auf Metkovic's Wellenlaenge...

Zie's Dir mal rein "Legija"....

[web:56bea2192f]http://www.ultimatum.20m.com/index012005.htm[/web:56bea2192f]

 

[Gast829627]

metlovic ist aber bestimmt in 12 jahren raus aus der pubertät und dann wird er sich schämen dafür :roll:

 

[Partibrejker]

metlovic ist aber bestimmt in 12 jahren raus aus der pubertät und dann wird er sich schämen dafür :roll:

Wenn er schon Berichte ueber den "Natijonalni Stroj" in Serbien sammelt, warum bringt er dann keine von "Antižidovski Pokret" aus Kroatien...????

[web:cb23150d55]http://www.nacional.hr/articles/view/13899/5/[/web:cb23150d55]

Okljaštrenom Hrvatskom kruži anonimni dopis potpisan s «Antižidovski Pokret» i popraćen žutom naljepnicom, na kojoj, u okviru ustaškoga slova «U», crnim slovima piše: «Židovi van iz Hrvatske». Tekst dopisa glasi: «Čudan ste narod vi Židovi! Sami tražite mač koji će vam odsjeći glavu. To što tražite, to ćete i dobiti, Židove Zuroff! Ostavite Hrvate na miru. Ukoliko i jedan Hrvat bude priveden, zatvoren, ili na bilo koji način šikaniran zbog vaših bolesnih židovskih ideja, upozoravamo vas: započet ćemo s likvidacijom vaših sunarodnjaka Židova u Hrvatskoj! Znamo vaša imena i adrese. Sami odlučite!». I kako da na to reagiramo, negoli izrazom razumijevanja! Valja, naime, prizvati u sjećanje da je, nedugo prije pojave ovoga letka (sredina srpnja 2004!), takozvani predsjednik RH primio svojega gazdu Zuroffa, koji mu je uručio novu tjeralicu (protiv časnog 91-godišnjeg starine, ustaše Milivoja Ašnera iz Slavonske Požege, koji je u vrijeme ratne hrvatske države obnašao hvalevrijednu dužnost pročelnika požeškoga redarstva). A općenitu Zuroff-Wiesenthalovu tjeralicu u stilu Divljega zapada («holokaust je izvršen i u Hrvatskoj… nitko ne može promijeniti povijest… za informacije koje bi dovele do kaznenog progona i sudske presude… nacistički zločini… pred lice pravde… operacija 'posljednja šansa'… 10.000 $») opetovano je objavio špijunski «Globus». Revno se i marno marionetsko-podaničko državno odvjetništvo već primilo posla, te proganja li proganja za židovski interes! Zar hrvatski narod nema pravo na samoobranu?!

http://www.ultimatum.20m.com/8_ultimatum8/8_1dos_zp2.htm

 

[Gast829627]

metlovic ist aber bestimmt in 12 jahren raus aus der pubertät und dann wird er sich schämen dafür :roll:

Wenn er schon Berichte ueber den "Natijonalni Stroj" in Serbien sammelt, warum bringt er dann keine von "Antižidovski Pokret" aus Kroatien...????

[web:8fea7eea4a]http://www.nacional.hr/articles/view/13899/5/[/web:8fea7eea4a]

Okljaštrenom Hrvatskom kruži anonimni dopis potpisan s «Antižidovski Pokret» i popraćen žutom naljepnicom, na kojoj, u okviru ustaškoga slova «U», crnim slovima piše: «Židovi van iz Hrvatske». Tekst dopisa glasi: «Čudan ste narod vi Židovi! Sami tražite mač koji će vam odsjeći glavu. To što tražite, to ćete i dobiti, Židove Zuroff! Ostavite Hrvate na miru. Ukoliko i jedan Hrvat bude priveden, zatvoren, ili na bilo koji način šikaniran zbog vaših bolesnih židovskih ideja, upozoravamo vas: započet ćemo s likvidacijom vaših sunarodnjaka Židova u Hrvatskoj! Znamo vaša imena i adrese. Sami odlučite!». I kako da na to reagiramo, negoli izrazom razumijevanja! Valja, naime, prizvati u sjećanje da je, nedugo prije pojave ovoga letka (sredina srpnja 2004!), takozvani predsjednik RH primio svojega gazdu Zuroffa, koji mu je uručio novu tjeralicu (protiv časnog 91-godišnjeg starine, ustaše Milivoja Ašnera iz Slavonske Požege, koji je u vrijeme ratne hrvatske države obnašao hvalevrijednu dužnost pročelnika požeškoga redarstva). A općenitu Zuroff-Wiesenthalovu tjeralicu u stilu Divljega zapada («holokaust je izvršen i u Hrvatskoj… nitko ne može promijeniti povijest… za informacije koje bi dovele do kaznenog progona i sudske presude… nacistički zločini… pred lice pravde… operacija 'posljednja šansa'… 10.000 $») opetovano je objavio špijunski «Globus». Revno se i marno marionetsko-podaničko državno odvjetništvo već primilo posla, te proganja li proganja za židovski interes! Zar hrvatski narod nema pravo na samoobranu?!

http://www.ultimatum.20m.com/8_ultimatum8/8_1dos_zp2.htm

 

[LaLa]

Serbs and Jews
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JEWISH LITERATURE

While talking about the horrors of the Holocaust, Jewish literature tends to be ethnocentric. It is understandable to a certain degree. Still, when talking about suffering in Yugoslavia, all of the literature talks with one voice about "Serbs and Jews"... For Jews and Serbs the destiny was the same.

"Encyclopedia of The Holocaust"
In many volumes of this book one can find many references on suffering of Serbs and Jews in Yugoslavia. Just look for: Croatia, Serbia, Jasenovac, Pavelic, Hussein al-, ... In the chapter on Croatia it says: "THE USTASHA REGIME IN CROATIA, AND PARTICULARLY THIS DRIVE IN THE SUMMER OF 1941 TO EXTERMINATE AND DISPOSSESS THE SERBS, WAS ONE OF THE MOST HORRENDOUS EPISODES OF WORLD WAR II . THE MURDER METHODS APPLIED BY THE USTASHA WERE EXTRAORDINARILY PRIMITIVE AND SADISTIC."

(Professor) Martin Gilbert: "The Holocaust"
This historian, the official biographer of Winston Churchill says: "in Yugoslavia, Hitler had an ideological and physical ally in the Croat Ustashi movement..."

(Professor) Helen Fein: "Accounting for Genocide"
This renowned historian says:"[Already] by June 1941, signs on public establishments [in Nazi Independent State of Croatia] read, NO SERBS, JEWS, NOMADS, AND DOGS ALLOWED. She clearly states:"...Nonpartisan sources agree that mass genocide was authorized by the state of Croatia. They concur the state instigated, planned, and executed masses against the Serbian Orthodox minority ...and that the Catholic clergy approved, led, or failed to denounce these massacres."

(Professor) Raul Hilberg: "The Destruction of the European Jews"
This is probably the best known book on the Jewish holocaust. It consists of two large volumes.
Briefly, this is what Dr. Hilberg says: Since April 1941, Serbia was under German occupation. But proud Serbs could never stand oppression. Soon they started uprising. Unlike anywhere else in occupied Europe, angry Nazi Germans invented 1:100 formula. For every German soldier killed 100 civilian hostages would be executed. Jewish male population was first among the hostages. Croatian Ustashi then finished (by use of gas vans) Jewish women and children of Serbia. This is how German Nazi commander of occupied Serbia could brag that "Jewish question in Serbia was solved".
In Fascist-Catholic Independent State of Croatia, Croat fascists eagerly and bestially exterminate Serbs (in the first place), Jews and Gypsies. Not only did Nazi Croats surpassed Nazi Germans and Fascist Italians - they shocked them with the bestial methods they implemented. It was Fascist Italians that tried to stop Ustashi bloody bacchanalia.

(Professor) Susan Zuccotti:"The Italians and the Holocaust - Persecution, Rescue, Survival" (New York, 1987)

Dr. Nora Levin:"The Holocaust"
The author reminds us:"The Ustashi were fanatics bent on the destruction of both Serbs and Jews... [They] murdered and tortured Jews and Serbs in indescribably bestial fashion. One of the most notorious camps in Hitler's Europe, Jasenovac, was in Croatia. Here the Ustashi used primitive implements in putting their victims to death - knives, axes, hammers and other iron tools... One source estimates that 770,000 Serbs, 40,000 Gypsies and 20,000 Jews were done to death in the Jasenovac camp [alone]."

Michael R. Marrus: "The Holocaust in History"
While talking about the Nazi satellites, the author says:"The overall level of violence was highest in Croatia, where Pavelic's Ustasha movement devised the most thoroughly totalitarian state of any satellite and pursued a merciless, bloody assault on the country's two million Serbs..."

(Professor) Clive Ponting: "Armageddon"
This historian and politician says: "The greatest ethnic slaughter took place as Yugoslavia was carved up after the German invasion in April 1941. The creation of a separate Croatia ... controlled by the fascist, Catholic, extremist Ustasha movement was the catalyst for the tragedy... Now, historic Croatia was expanded to include Bosnia-Herzegovina and other teritories, and the Ustasha were left ... to govern a population of nearly 7 million people, of whom about half were Croats, just over 2 million were Serbs, about 750,000 were Muslims, and small numbers were Protestants and Jews.... The Minister of Education, Mile Budak, made clear the Ustasha aims: "Our new Croatia will get rid of all Serbs in our midst in order to become one hundred percent Catholic within ten years." He spoke of killing a third of the Serbs, converting a third, and expelling the remainder. The leader of the Ustasha, Ante Pavelic, said,"A good Ustasha is one who can use his knife to cut a child from the womb of its mother." (end quote).

Dr. Ronnie S. Landau: "The Nazi Holocaust"
In Yugoslav Croatia, too, there is evidence that officials of the Orthodox Church [that is - the Serbs] pleaded with the authorities [that is to the Nazi Croats - Ustashi] to curtail the vicious treatment meted out to both Orthodox Serbs and Jews.

Major Richard L. Felman
One of more than 500 American Airmen rescued by the Serbs during WWII says: "Many Serbs risked their lives during World War II to save countless Jews from Nazi death camps. This is something we can never forget and for which I and The Jewish People will always be grateful."

Gottlieb Hlinko:"Kaddish in the Serbian Forest" -"The Massacre of European Jewry: An Antology" (Israel: Kibbutz Merchavia, 1963)



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JEWISH REACTION TO THE CURRENT EVENTS

Some Jews still remember...

They shared our fate"
As Jews, we do indeed have a historical obligation to the Serbs" says Mr. Joseph Lapid, a columnist and editorial writer for"Ma'ariv" a leading Hebrew daily.

'Eden' of Sarajevo disappeared during WWII
Says Dr. Alfred Lipson, a Senior Researcher at Holocaust Resource Center and Archives, Queensborough Community College of the City University of New York, Bayside, N.Y.

Serbs, Jews and Bosnia
Professor John Ranz, Chairperson Survivors of the Buchenwald Concentration Camp reminds us of the basic history of the region.

A plan bad to the bone
Dr. Reich, the Director of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington protests Croatian plan to mix the bones of the Holocaust's victims in Croatia with those of its perpetrators.

Fascism is alive and well in Croatia
Professor Howard L. Adelson says "Today Ustashi murderers are being rehabilitated and are being extolled as national heroes by Tudjman despite the fact that they were among the most brutal villains [of WWII]."

The Serbian soldiers - utterly truthful and honorable
...says Herb Brin, the oldest working American journalist and adds: "the decision to bomb the Serb position in Bosnia breaks my heart".

U.S. Jews and the Balkan Situation
Mr. Alvin Dorfman and Mrs. Heather Cottin explain how major Jewish organizations got to spread government anti-Serb propaganda.

Shame, shame, shame!
Charley Reese: "No sin blots American politics today more than the betrayal of the Serbs. No one ought to be more ashamed of U.S. treatment of the Serbs than American Jews."

Jewish motives
Dr. Yohanan Ramati, the Director of The Jerusalem Institute for Western Defence explains mentality of diaspora Jews. How did they alow to be duped.

An open letter to the American Jewish Commitee
Mr. Danon Cadik, the chief Rabbi of Yugoslavia, et. al., pleads for justice.

Set your records straight!
Mr. Jasa Almuli, past President of the Jewish Community of Belgrade and past Vice-President of Jewish Communities in Yugoslavia, pleads for truth.

The Serbs had for ever won a place in the hearts of the Jews
"We the surviving Jews of Serbia have for them respect and understanding. We know that the basic motive of their recent rebellion in secessionist Croatia and Bosnia and Hercegovina were their distrust and deep apprehension after they have been slaughtered in the Nazi era by the Croat Ustashas and Muslim SS..." says Dr. Aleksandar Mosic, Former Deputy President, Federation of Jewish Communities in Yugoslavia.

Serbs are our brothers in soul
"A media Auschwitz, was perpetrated on the Serbian people! The Serbs were dehumanized and portrayed as monsters exactly as the Jews were portrayed through centuries. Do not participate in persecution of the Serbs. They are our brothers. They are people who share the same destiny with us, the Jewish people." says Professor and composer Enriko Josif.

60 Minutes...more yellow journalism on Bosnia!
An open letter by Mrs. Sandy Marquette a Jew from Chicago.

The European Hoodlum Democracy Will Not Break the Serbs
Dr. Klara Mandic, a senior Belgrade Jewish community leader explains the Serbian motives.

America in the Eye of a Hurricane
Dr. Henry Kissinger reminds us that Bosnia had never been an independent state and warns us that long American tradition of support to self-determination has been betrayed.

Du bringst jüdische Quellen, ich bringe jüdische Quellen und du bist sogar Jude und die glauben trotzdem den scheiss den dieser Fachidiot verzapft.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Wieso zieht er dann nicht Vergleiche zwischen den Nazis und den Albanern?
Kosovo ist serbenfrei! Welches Herrenmenschendenken?[/b]

Die Albaner denken eigentlich nicht dass sie was besseres sind. Die sehen in den Serben eine Gefahr derer sie sich besser entledigen. Damit will ich den Ideologie unterschied aufzeigen, nicht irgendwelche Verbrechen rechtfertigen

Zu pauschalisieren deutet nicht gerade auf Professionalität.Herr Grimm versucht sein Denken auf andere zu projizieren, das ist nicht mehr sachlich sondern demagogisch.(Und Du tust es ihm gleich)

Wenn man die nötige Aufmerksamkiet erreichen will, muss man überspitzt formulieren. 8)

 

[LaLa]

Wieso zieht er dann nicht Vergleiche zwischen den Nazis und den Albanern?
Kosovo ist serbenfrei! Welches Herrenmenschendenken?[/b]

Die Albaner denken eigentlich nicht dass sie was besseres sind. Die sehen in den Serben eine Gefahr derer sie sich besser entledigen. Damit will ich den Ideologie unterschied aufzeigen, nicht irgendwelche Verbrechen rechtfertigen

Zu pauschalisieren deutet nicht gerade auf Professionalität.Herr Grimm versucht sein Denken auf andere zu projizieren, das ist nicht mehr sachlich sondern demagogisch.(Und Du tust es ihm gleich)

Wenn man die nötige Aufmerksamkiet erreichen will, muss man überspitzt formulieren. 8)

Willkommen auf meiner Ignorliste. Mit der Angabe: 75% hast du dich Disqualifiziert.