Aktuelles
  • Herzlich Willkommen im Balkanforum
    Sind Sie neu hier? Dann werden Sie Mitglied in unserer Community.
    Bitte hier registrieren

an die Antiken Griechen, Makedonier, Illyrer und Mongolen

Also, ich habe dir ja diesbezüglich eine Quelle verlinkt, welche Macedonia / Μακεδονία etymologisch als griechisch feststellt. Der Name Μακεδονία war vor dem Slaweneinfall bekannt (Reich Alexanders, usw.) ... da fragt man sich doch, welche Bedeutung der Name nun auf slawisch haben könnte, wenn die Bedeutung schon lange vor der Ankunft der Slawen gegeben war?

Es geht denen um Nicht-Indogermanen. Dafuer sollen dann Pelasger herhalten, die dort aus den abgebrochenen Zaehnen eines Drachen gewachsen sind.
Diese Pelasger nannten sich dann ploetzlich Slawen, und sind, als das Klima kaelter wurde, dann in den warmen Norden abgewandert. Anschliessend kamen sie wieder runter, um von Norden her Krieg gegen die Roemer zu fuehren.
Ergibt nur mit Absinth Sinn.
 
Natürlich ergibt das Sinn, die antiken Griechen haben sich was zusammengeschustert. Die hatten ja nicht mal ein Alphabet, mussten sich das bei den Nachbarn borgen. Ist in etwa so wie das eingedeutschte Latein, da wurde Hinz und Kunz gräzisiert. Siehe Alaksandu-Alexandros.

Siehe:
At first sight, it appears that the inhabitants of the Macedonian alluvial plain spoke Greek. A fourth-century curse tablet from Pella, published in 1994, is written in Northwest Greek, and later inscriptions are in Attic Greek. Many personal names (like Philippos and Alexandros, Zeus and Herakles) are Greek as well. That the Macedonians spoke Greek, looks like an inevitable conclusion.
However, there is some room for doubt. To start with, there are also Macedonian names that have no Greek parallel (Arridaeus or Sabattaras). In the second place, in many semi-literate societies, there is a difference between the spoken and the written language. It would not be without parallel if a Macedonian, when he wanted to make an official statement, preferred decent Greek instead of his native tongue. (Cf. the altars of the goddess Nehalennia, which were all written in Latin, a language that was almost certainly not spoken by the people who erected them.)


Thirdly, many historical sources are written in Greek, and it was a common practice among Greek historians to hellenize foreign names. For example, the name of the powerful first king of the Persian empire, Kuruš, ought to be transcribed as Kourous or Kouroux in Greek, but became Kyros, because this looks like a Greek word ("Mr. Almighty"). The name that is rendered as Alexandros, which has a perfect Greek etymology, may in fact represent something like Alaxandus, which is not Greek. A related argument that forces us to hesitate is that the Greeks nearly always converted the names of foreign deities. Supreme gods like Jupiter and Marduk are called "Zeus". So, the fact that Greek authors use Greek names for Macedonian people and deities does not prove very much about the Macedonian language.


None of this forces us to say that the Macedonians did not speak Greek, but it leaves the possibility that things were not what they seem. There is room for skepticism.

Macedonia
Year Αλεξανδρος φιλιππος Μακεδονια Made by Fyrov.
 
Natürlich ergibt das Sinn, die antiken Griechen haben sich was zusammengeschustert. Die hatten ja nicht mal ein Alphabet, mussten sich das bei den Nachbarn borgen. Ist in etwa so wie das eingedeutschte Latein, da wurde Hinz und Kunz gräzisiert. Siehe Alaksandu-Alexandros.

Siehe:
At first sight, it appears that the inhabitants of the Macedonian alluvial plain spoke Greek. A fourth-century curse tablet from Pella, published in 1994, is written in Northwest Greek, and later inscriptions are in Attic Greek. Many personal names (like Philippos and Alexandros, Zeus and Herakles) are Greek as well. That the Macedonians spoke Greek, looks like an inevitable conclusion.
However, there is some room for doubt. To start with, there are also Macedonian names that have no Greek parallel (Arridaeus or Sabattaras). In the second place, in many semi-literate societies, there is a difference between the spoken and the written language. It would not be without parallel if a Macedonian, when he wanted to make an official statement, preferred decent Greek instead of his native tongue. (Cf. the altars of the goddess Nehalennia, which were all written in Latin, a language that was almost certainly not spoken by the people who erected them.)


Thirdly, many historical sources are written in Greek, and it was a common practice among Greek historians to hellenize foreign names. For example, the name of the powerful first king of the Persian empire, Kuruš, ought to be transcribed as Kourous or Kouroux in Greek, but became Kyros, because this looks like a Greek word ("Mr. Almighty"). The name that is rendered as Alexandros, which has a perfect Greek etymology, may in fact represent something like Alaxandus, which is not Greek. A related argument that forces us to hesitate is that the Greeks nearly always converted the names of foreign deities. Supreme gods like Jupiter and Marduk are called "Zeus". So, the fact that Greek authors use Greek names for Macedonian people and deities does not prove very much about the Macedonian language.


None of this forces us to say that the Macedonians did not speak Greek, but it leaves the possibility that things were not what they seem. There is room for skepticism.

Macedonia

Da spritzt er gleich wieder ab ... hatten wir alles schon Zoran. Für die renommierte Geschichtsschreibung steht fest, dass ihr Slawen FYROMs nichts mit antiken Makedonien zu tun habt; weder historisch, noch ethnisch oder kulturell ... deine Versuche das griechische zu negieren beweist doch einmal mehr, wie verzweifelt du bist.
 
Da spritzt er gleich wieder ab ... hatten wir alles schon Zoran. Für die renommierte Geschichtsschreibung steht fest, dass ihr Slawen FYROMs nichts mit antiken Makedonien zu tun habt; weder historisch, noch ethnisch oder kulturell ... deine Versuche das griechische zu negieren beweist doch einmal mehr, wie verzweifelt du bist.

Kann dir doch egal sein, du bist ein Grieche der nicht Verwandt oder Verschwägert mit den Makedonen ist.


Pozdrav

- - - Aktualisiert - - -

Online Etymology Dictionary

c. 1300,
Macedone, from Latin Macedonius "Macedonian," from Greek Makedones "the Macedonians," literally "highlanders" or "the tall ones," related to makednos "long, tall," makros "long, large" (see macro-). French Macédoine "mixed cut fruit or vegetables" is early 19c., said to be a reference to the diversity of people in Alexander's empire.


Das ist noch viel geiler:


Greek (n.) Old English Grecas, Crecas (plural), early Germanic borrowing from Latin Graeci "the Hellenes," from Greek Grakoi. Aristotle, who was the first to use Graikhos as equivalent to Hellenes ("Meteorologica" I.xiv), wrote that it was the name originally used by Illyrians for the Dorians in Epirus, from Graii, native name of the people of Epirus.

But a modern theory (put forth by German classical historian Georg Busolt, 1850-1920), derives it from Graikhos "inhabitant of Graia" (literally "gray"), a town on the coast of Boeotia, which was the name given by the Romans to all Greeks, originally to the Greek colonists from Graia who helped found Cumae (9c. B.C.E.), the important city in southern Italy where the Latins first encountered Greeks. Under this theory, it was reborrowed in this general sense by the Greeks.

The Germanic languages originally borrowed the word with an initial -k- sound (compare Old High German Chrech, Gothic Kreks), which probably was their initial sound closest to the Latin -g- at the time; the word was later refashioned.
It was subtle of God to learn Greek when he wished to become an author -- and not to learn it better. [Nietzsche, "Beyond Good and Evil," 1886]​
Meaning "the Greek language" is from late 14c.; meaning "unintelligible speech, gibberish" is from c.1600. Meaning "Greek letter fraternity member" is student slang, 1900.


:lol:

- - - Aktualisiert - - -

Hellas - Null Treffer

- - - Aktualisiert - - -

Ellas - Null Treffer
 
Gott danke dir das du mich mit einem Gehirn gesegnet hast, welches frei von nationalistischen, faschistischen und unwichtigem "Antik hier antik da" Müll komplett frei bzw. immun ist:mrgreen:
Amin :lol:
 
Ellada - Null Treffer

- - - Aktualisiert - - -

Gott danke dir das du mich mit einem Gehirn gesegnet hast, welches frei von nationalistischen, faschistischen und unwichtigem "Antik hier antik da" Müll komplett frei bzw. immun ist:mrgreen:
Amin :lol:

Willkommen im BF :^^:


Pozzzz :mk1:
 
Natürlich ergibt das Sinn, die antiken Griechen haben sich was zusammengeschustert. Die hatten ja nicht mal ein Alphabet, mussten sich das bei den Nachbarn borgen. Ist in etwa so wie das eingedeutschte Latein, da wurde Hinz und Kunz gräzisiert. Siehe Alaksandu-Alexandros.

Siehe:
At first sight, it appears that the inhabitants of the Macedonian alluvial plain spoke Greek. A fourth-century curse tablet from Pella, published in 1994, is written in Northwest Greek, and later inscriptions are in Attic Greek. Many personal names (like Philippos and Alexandros, Zeus and Herakles) are Greek as well. That the Macedonians spoke Greek, looks like an inevitable conclusion.
However, there is some room for doubt. To start with, there are also Macedonian names that have no Greek parallel (Arridaeus or Sabattaras). In the second place, in many semi-literate societies, there is a difference between the spoken and the written language. It would not be without parallel if a Macedonian, when he wanted to make an official statement, preferred decent Greek instead of his native tongue. (Cf. the altars of the goddess Nehalennia, which were all written in Latin, a language that was almost certainly not spoken by the people who erected them.)


Thirdly, many historical sources are written in Greek, and it was a common practice among Greek historians to hellenize foreign names. For example, the name of the powerful first king of the Persian empire, Kuruš, ought to be transcribed as Kourous or Kouroux in Greek, but became Kyros, because this looks like a Greek word ("Mr. Almighty"). The name that is rendered as Alexandros, which has a perfect Greek etymology, may in fact represent something like Alaxandus, which is not Greek. A related argument that forces us to hesitate is that the Greeks nearly always converted the names of foreign deities. Supreme gods like Jupiter and Marduk are called "Zeus". So, the fact that Greek authors use Greek names for Macedonian people and deities does not prove very much about the Macedonian language.


None of this forces us to say that the Macedonians did not speak Greek, but it leaves the possibility that things were not what they seem. There is room for skepticism.

Macedonia


Dir ist klar, dass Alex-Andros, im Gegensatz zu "Kyros" (falsches "i" uebrigens) ebenfalls ein aus (gaengigen) altgriechischen Woertern zusammengesetzter Name ist ?
Ebenso wie LysAndros, MeneAndros (...).
-Archos, -Stratos, -Andros (...) sind naemlich durchaus gaengig fuer hellenische Namen gewesen...

" So, the fact that Greek authors use Greek names for Macedonian people and deities does not prove very much about the Macedonian language."
Gibt es schriftliche Dokumente/Relikte, in denen die Makedonen diese Begriffe anders als die Griechen verwendeten?
 
Es geht denen um Nicht-Indogermanen. Dafuer sollen dann Pelasger herhalten, die dort aus den abgebrochenen Zaehnen eines Drachen gewachsen sind.
Diese Pelasger nannten sich dann ploetzlich Slawen, und sind, als das Klima kaelter wurde, dann in den warmen Norden abgewandert. Anschliessend kamen sie wieder runter, um von Norden her Krieg gegen die Roemer zu fuehren.
Ergibt nur mit Absinth Sinn.



Nur dumm das ausgerechnet das Griechische ein Vor-indoeuropäisches Substrat hat und nicht Zoranis Slawomazedonische. Ist vielleicht der falsche zeitpunkt sowas zu diskutieren aber im Griechischen gibt es tatsächlich ein vor-indoeuropäisches Substrat und das ist auch kein scherz :D. Das beschränkt sich nicht nur auf Toponymen sondern auch viele Wörter z.b. ist das heutige Wort Thalassa kein Indoeuropäisches wort . Dieses soll von der vorgriechischen Bevölkerung (Pelasger oder Ägäische sprachen nennt es wie ihr wollt) den ankommenden "Indoeuropäern" Proto-griechen weitergeben worden sein. Dieses würde auch sinn ergeben da sich viele Athenische Familien der Klassischen zeit sich ihrer "Pelasgischen vorfahren" rühmten.

Pre-Greek substrate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Pre-Greek substrate consists of the unknown language or languages spoken in prehistoric Greece before the settlement of Proto-Greek speakers in the area. It is thought possible that Greek took over some thousand words and proper names from such a language (or languages), because some of its vocabulary cannot be satisfactorily explained as deriving from the Proto-Greek language
Possible Pre-Greek loanwords


  • Maritime vocabulary (e.g. θάλασσα thálassa 'sea')

 
Zurück
Oben