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Princip_Grahovo
Gesperrt
1. Warum zum Kukuck wurde ich für meinen letzten Post verwarnt?
2. Erzähl hier bitte keine Märchen, jeder weiß genau was in abgelaufen ist im ehemaligen Jugoslawien. Die Königstreuen Cetniks haben 1941 in Belgrad gegen ein Bündnis mit Nazi-Deutschland demonstriert. Daraufhin hat Hitler mit totalen Zerstörungsbefehl Belgrad in Schutt und Asche gelegt. Die königstreuen Cetniks wurden deportiert und man setzte serbische Quislinge und Verräter in Schlüsselpositionen ein. (Quelle Deutsches Museum für Wehrmacht)
Die Juden in Serbien wurde durch die Wehrmacht und Volksdeutschen deportiert. (Quelle Zentralrat der Juden in Serbien)
Serben haben zusammen mit den Juden gelitten in der Nazi-Zeit!
Princip_Grahovo
Gesperrt
da steht: "Mach weiter so." und sonst nichts mehr. Na toll.
Sags mir doch damit wir alles wissen warum.
Princip_Grahovo
Gesperrt
Zu den Juden in Serbien:
"Jews marked with the Star of David in Serbia. Between August 1941 and May 1942, 12,000 Serbian Jews were interned and most of them shot by the German army, together with Gypsies, Communists and Serbian nationalists. In Croatia, the puppet Ustashi regime rounded up Jews in camps where they were systematically killed or deported to death camps in Poland."
NAZISM AND THE HOLOCAUST: images pg.52
"Jetzt wurden die Serben in ihrem Land durch die nazistischen Eindringlingen ebenso Opfer wie die Juden. Es gibt keine Beweise, dass die Juden Serbiens jemals belästigt, geschweige denn ermordet wurden, während die Deutschen und ihre kroatischen Verbündeten dies Anfang 1941 im KZ Jasenovac taten. Tatsächlich aber wurde Serbien zu einem sicherer Hafen für verbündete Flieger, die über dem besetzten Jugoslawien während des zweiten Weltkriegs abgeschossen wurden, wobei manch eine serbische Familie diese verbündeten Flieger vor den nazistischen Besatzern versteckte. Ebenfalls gingen Serben spontan los, ihren jüdischen Landsmännern während der Schreckenszeit der Nazis zu helfen."
Dr. Falk, Buffalo Jews, "Believe It or Not", 07.12.2000
Believe It or Not
"Jews marked with the Star of David in Serbia. Between August 1941 and May 1942, 12,000 Serbian Jews were interned and most of them shot by the German army, together with Gypsies, Communists and Serbian nationalists. In Croatia, the puppet Ustashi regime rounded up Jews in camps where they were systematically killed or deported to death camps in Poland."
NAZISM AND THE HOLOCAUST: images pg.52
"Jetzt wurden die Serben in ihrem Land durch die nazistischen Eindringlingen ebenso Opfer wie die Juden. Es gibt keine Beweise, dass die Juden Serbiens jemals belästigt, geschweige denn ermordet wurden, während die Deutschen und ihre kroatischen Verbündeten dies Anfang 1941 im KZ Jasenovac taten. Tatsächlich aber wurde Serbien zu einem sicherer Hafen für verbündete Flieger, die über dem besetzten Jugoslawien während des zweiten Weltkriegs abgeschossen wurden, wobei manch eine serbische Familie diese verbündeten Flieger vor den nazistischen Besatzern versteckte. Ebenfalls gingen Serben spontan los, ihren jüdischen Landsmännern während der Schreckenszeit der Nazis zu helfen."
Dr. Falk, Buffalo Jews, "Believe It or Not", 07.12.2000
Believe It or Not
Bei deinem braunen Geschreibse kann ich mir schon gut vorstellen, dass du Probleme mit dem Lesen hast.
Lerne mal Geschichte. Einen Scheissdreck haben die Cetnik's getan, ausser die Vernichtung nichtserbischer Bevölkerungsteile, Ermordung von nichtserbischen Politikern usw., demonstriert hat die Bevölkerung, aber der Putsch war nicht gegen den Pakt mit den Nazi's, den übrigens Prinzregent Paul und Cvetkovic, aber nicht Macek unterschrieben haben. Der Putschist Simovic hat Hitler auf den Knien angefleht, dass er den Pakt einhalten würde. Macek hat sich sogar bereit erklärt in die Regierung unter Simovic einzutreten, in der Hoffnung einen Krieg zu verhindern.
Entschuldige schon, aber Ljotic, Pecanac waren Cetnik's.
Ach warum hat man dann Bajnica eingerichtet?
KZ Banjica - Wikipedia
Princip_Grahovo
Gesperrt
Zentralrat der Juden in Serbien JASA ALMULI über das Schicksal der Juden Serbiens im 2 Weltkrieg:
THE FATE OF JEWS IN WARTIME YUGOSLAVIA
Recently concerted attacks upon Serbs have appeared in various publications concerning the persecution of Jews within Serbia during World War II. In this connection we reprint here two letters published in The Times Literary Supplement of October 8, 1993., and the London Review of Books of November 18,1993., respectively both written by Jasa Almuli, past President of the Jewish Community of Belgrade and past Vice-President of Jewish Communities in Yugoslavia.
Times Literary Supplement, No.4723, 8.10.1993:
OUT OF YUGOSLAVIA
Sir, As one of the very few Serbian Jews who survived the Holocaust, I am deeply hurt by Ante Knezevic’s letter (September 24), in which he shows a lack of respect, both for the historical truth and for the Jewish victims of genocide in Serbia, by implying that they were not exclusive destroyed by the Germans. The fact that over 90 per cent of Serbian Jews were exterminated, he presents 'as a result of widespread (Serbian) collaboration with the Nazis.
The very early destruction of Jews in Serbia - in large numbers - was not the result of Serbian collaboration with the Germans, but to a large extent the result of the Serbian resistance to them. The Germans invaded Yugoslavia in April 1941., dismembered the country, created a puppet state in Croatia with the help of the local fascist Ustasa and put occupied Serbia under direct German military rule. In July of 1941., the Serbs followed Tito’s call for partisan war and, after inflicting many losses on the German Army the Serbs suffered cruel reprisals. For each German soldier killed, 100 Serbian hostages were executed by the Wehrmacht, and for each wounded soldier fifty hostages were taken. The Germans rounded up all Jewish civilian males between the ages of sixteen and seventy and executed them, along with gipsies, captured Serbian patriots and imprisoned leftists. After the execution of all Jewish males, the Germans put their widows and orphans in a concentration camp near Belgrade and gassed them all in a mobile gas van. The concentration camp was run exclusively by the Germans, whose SS did the killing without any participation by the Serbs.
In the Study XV published by the Israell Memorial Museum, Yad Vashem, in 1983., Christopher R. Browning summarised his findings in an article, 'The Final Solution in Serbia':
'In Serbia the executioners were primarily German army personnel, not SS units… The firing squads operated under the pretext of carrying out reprisals for casualties inflicted by partisans, not with the avowed aim of exterminating the entire Jewish population. Uncertainty over the ultimate goal and scope of Nazi Jewish policy was not prolonged, however. The survivors of the fall massacre, mostly women and children, were placed in a concentration camp at Semlin just across the Sava River from Belgrade and, regardles of age and sex, were murdered in a gas van in the spring of 1942.'
The American Jewish historian Raul Hilberg, in his book The Destruction of the European Jews (revised edition, 1985.), states:
'The Serbs abhorred the foreign yoke under practically all forms and for that treason occupied Serbia was the theatre of an uninterrupted partisan war. As in Russia, the German army was punishing the manifestations of rebellion by executing the hostages , above all the Jewish hostages'.
As for the Jewish women and children in Serbia, Hilberg writes:
' In December… the military units undertook the transfer of the families of the executed hostages to Semlin where the commander of the Security police and of the SD , Schafer , was awaiting his victims…In the beginning of March 1942., a special vehicle arrived from Berlin, a gas van. Every day except Sundays and holidays the women and children were put into the van… The operation ended on 10. May. Satisfied, Dr Shafer reported that the problem of Jews in Serbia did not exist any more.'
The role of the Germans in the destruction of the Jews in Serbia is also described in detail in the so - called 'Black Book', by the Federation of Jewish Communities in Yugoslavia (1957) and in Jasa Roman’s 'Jews of Yugoslavia: Victims of genocide and participants in the liberation war' (1980), neither of which points the finger at the Serbs as the culprits.
JASA ALMULI London N3
London Review of Books, 18. 11. 1993:
GREATER CROATIA
Sir, In the present propaganda battle among the warring factions in former Yugoslavia the history of the Holocaust is insistently revised with the aim of making the opposing faction guilty of the killing of Jews. This mudthrowing at the local enemy belittles the role of the Germans on the destruction of Jews in Yugoslavia. Thus Attila Hoare ( Letters, 9. September) alleged: 'Equal numbers of Jews were killed in wartime Croatia and wartime Serbia - 24,000 and 23,000 respectively - and the Serbian Nazi quisling regime of Milan Nedic participated enthusiastically in the Holocaust and indeed built its own death camps, such as the Banjica camp in Belgrade, which was staffed by Serbs.'
These allegations contain two incorrect statements and one half - truth. According to research by the Federation of Jewish Communities in Yugoslavia, published in 1952. in The Crimes of the Fascist Occupants and their Collaborators Against Jews in Yugoslavia, there was a great difference in both the number and the way Jews perished in Croatia and Serbia.
In the fascist Independent State of Croatia, which was Hitler’s ally during the Second World War, not 24,000 but over 33,000 Jews lost their lives, about 21,000 from Croatia proper and 12,000 from Bosnia - Herzegovina, which was annexed to Croatia with Germany’s blessing. The great majority of the 33,000 Jewish victims were killed or starved and tortured to death in concentration camps in Croatia proper run by Croatia Ustashe guards. About five thousand were handed to the Germans to be deported to Auschwitz.
In Serbia which was under German military occupation, not 23,000 but about 14,000 Jews lost their lives, almost exclusively at the hands of the Germans. About five thousand Jewish males were shot by the German Army in reprisals for losses inflicted on them by Serbian Partisans. About seven and a half thousand widows and orphans of executed males were gassed in a German concentration camp near Belgrade; about eight hundred were taken from the Jewish hospital in Belgrade and also gassed; and several hundred were killed by the Germans in small towns.
The allegation that the regime of Milan Nedic, installed by the Germans in Serbia in August 1941., enthusiastically participated in the Holocaust, is the second incorrect statement in Mr. Hoare’s letter. No anti - Jewish legislation was passed by this regime, no death camp for Jews was established or run by it and virtually no killing perpetrated. All that was done by the German Army, police and SS which had almost entirely destroyed the Serbian Jewish population by May 1942., although several hundred Jews were still hiding with Serbian friends. The German police were hunting them and many were caught with the help of police loyal to Nedic’s regime, attracted by the financial reward the Germans were paying. This is all that can be found about Nedic in the published research of the Federation of Jewish Communities in Yugoslavia. The Germans themselves dealt with the Jews in Serbia; the duty of Nedic‘s regime was to carry out internal administration.
The half - truth in Mr. Hoare’s letter refers to the concentration camp Banjica in Belgrade. It was indeed a death camp and staffed by Serbian policemen, but it was not destined for Jews. This camp was established by German order and the Serbian personnel were subject to the control of the Gestapo. The camp was intended for Serbs who opposed the German occupation, for Partisans, Communists and liberal patriots. Out of 23,697 persons who were imprisoned in this camp only 455 were Jews.
As the former president of the Jewish Community in Belgrade and former vice-president of the Federation of Jewish Communities in Yugoslavia, I plead with the warring factions in former Yugoslavia, and with their respective friends abroad, to stop using Jews in their propaganda warfare.
JASA ALMULI London N3
Soll ich dem Zentralrat der Juden Glauben oder vesti.hr?
THE FATE OF JEWS IN WARTIME YUGOSLAVIA
Recently concerted attacks upon Serbs have appeared in various publications concerning the persecution of Jews within Serbia during World War II. In this connection we reprint here two letters published in The Times Literary Supplement of October 8, 1993., and the London Review of Books of November 18,1993., respectively both written by Jasa Almuli, past President of the Jewish Community of Belgrade and past Vice-President of Jewish Communities in Yugoslavia.
Times Literary Supplement, No.4723, 8.10.1993:
OUT OF YUGOSLAVIA
Sir, As one of the very few Serbian Jews who survived the Holocaust, I am deeply hurt by Ante Knezevic’s letter (September 24), in which he shows a lack of respect, both for the historical truth and for the Jewish victims of genocide in Serbia, by implying that they were not exclusive destroyed by the Germans. The fact that over 90 per cent of Serbian Jews were exterminated, he presents 'as a result of widespread (Serbian) collaboration with the Nazis.
The very early destruction of Jews in Serbia - in large numbers - was not the result of Serbian collaboration with the Germans, but to a large extent the result of the Serbian resistance to them. The Germans invaded Yugoslavia in April 1941., dismembered the country, created a puppet state in Croatia with the help of the local fascist Ustasa and put occupied Serbia under direct German military rule. In July of 1941., the Serbs followed Tito’s call for partisan war and, after inflicting many losses on the German Army the Serbs suffered cruel reprisals. For each German soldier killed, 100 Serbian hostages were executed by the Wehrmacht, and for each wounded soldier fifty hostages were taken. The Germans rounded up all Jewish civilian males between the ages of sixteen and seventy and executed them, along with gipsies, captured Serbian patriots and imprisoned leftists. After the execution of all Jewish males, the Germans put their widows and orphans in a concentration camp near Belgrade and gassed them all in a mobile gas van. The concentration camp was run exclusively by the Germans, whose SS did the killing without any participation by the Serbs.
In the Study XV published by the Israell Memorial Museum, Yad Vashem, in 1983., Christopher R. Browning summarised his findings in an article, 'The Final Solution in Serbia':
'In Serbia the executioners were primarily German army personnel, not SS units… The firing squads operated under the pretext of carrying out reprisals for casualties inflicted by partisans, not with the avowed aim of exterminating the entire Jewish population. Uncertainty over the ultimate goal and scope of Nazi Jewish policy was not prolonged, however. The survivors of the fall massacre, mostly women and children, were placed in a concentration camp at Semlin just across the Sava River from Belgrade and, regardles of age and sex, were murdered in a gas van in the spring of 1942.'
The American Jewish historian Raul Hilberg, in his book The Destruction of the European Jews (revised edition, 1985.), states:
'The Serbs abhorred the foreign yoke under practically all forms and for that treason occupied Serbia was the theatre of an uninterrupted partisan war. As in Russia, the German army was punishing the manifestations of rebellion by executing the hostages , above all the Jewish hostages'.
As for the Jewish women and children in Serbia, Hilberg writes:
' In December… the military units undertook the transfer of the families of the executed hostages to Semlin where the commander of the Security police and of the SD , Schafer , was awaiting his victims…In the beginning of March 1942., a special vehicle arrived from Berlin, a gas van. Every day except Sundays and holidays the women and children were put into the van… The operation ended on 10. May. Satisfied, Dr Shafer reported that the problem of Jews in Serbia did not exist any more.'
The role of the Germans in the destruction of the Jews in Serbia is also described in detail in the so - called 'Black Book', by the Federation of Jewish Communities in Yugoslavia (1957) and in Jasa Roman’s 'Jews of Yugoslavia: Victims of genocide and participants in the liberation war' (1980), neither of which points the finger at the Serbs as the culprits.
JASA ALMULI London N3
London Review of Books, 18. 11. 1993:
GREATER CROATIA
Sir, In the present propaganda battle among the warring factions in former Yugoslavia the history of the Holocaust is insistently revised with the aim of making the opposing faction guilty of the killing of Jews. This mudthrowing at the local enemy belittles the role of the Germans on the destruction of Jews in Yugoslavia. Thus Attila Hoare ( Letters, 9. September) alleged: 'Equal numbers of Jews were killed in wartime Croatia and wartime Serbia - 24,000 and 23,000 respectively - and the Serbian Nazi quisling regime of Milan Nedic participated enthusiastically in the Holocaust and indeed built its own death camps, such as the Banjica camp in Belgrade, which was staffed by Serbs.'
These allegations contain two incorrect statements and one half - truth. According to research by the Federation of Jewish Communities in Yugoslavia, published in 1952. in The Crimes of the Fascist Occupants and their Collaborators Against Jews in Yugoslavia, there was a great difference in both the number and the way Jews perished in Croatia and Serbia.
In the fascist Independent State of Croatia, which was Hitler’s ally during the Second World War, not 24,000 but over 33,000 Jews lost their lives, about 21,000 from Croatia proper and 12,000 from Bosnia - Herzegovina, which was annexed to Croatia with Germany’s blessing. The great majority of the 33,000 Jewish victims were killed or starved and tortured to death in concentration camps in Croatia proper run by Croatia Ustashe guards. About five thousand were handed to the Germans to be deported to Auschwitz.
In Serbia which was under German military occupation, not 23,000 but about 14,000 Jews lost their lives, almost exclusively at the hands of the Germans. About five thousand Jewish males were shot by the German Army in reprisals for losses inflicted on them by Serbian Partisans. About seven and a half thousand widows and orphans of executed males were gassed in a German concentration camp near Belgrade; about eight hundred were taken from the Jewish hospital in Belgrade and also gassed; and several hundred were killed by the Germans in small towns.
The allegation that the regime of Milan Nedic, installed by the Germans in Serbia in August 1941., enthusiastically participated in the Holocaust, is the second incorrect statement in Mr. Hoare’s letter. No anti - Jewish legislation was passed by this regime, no death camp for Jews was established or run by it and virtually no killing perpetrated. All that was done by the German Army, police and SS which had almost entirely destroyed the Serbian Jewish population by May 1942., although several hundred Jews were still hiding with Serbian friends. The German police were hunting them and many were caught with the help of police loyal to Nedic’s regime, attracted by the financial reward the Germans were paying. This is all that can be found about Nedic in the published research of the Federation of Jewish Communities in Yugoslavia. The Germans themselves dealt with the Jews in Serbia; the duty of Nedic‘s regime was to carry out internal administration.
The half - truth in Mr. Hoare’s letter refers to the concentration camp Banjica in Belgrade. It was indeed a death camp and staffed by Serbian policemen, but it was not destined for Jews. This camp was established by German order and the Serbian personnel were subject to the control of the Gestapo. The camp was intended for Serbs who opposed the German occupation, for Partisans, Communists and liberal patriots. Out of 23,697 persons who were imprisoned in this camp only 455 were Jews.
As the former president of the Jewish Community in Belgrade and former vice-president of the Federation of Jewish Communities in Yugoslavia, I plead with the warring factions in former Yugoslavia, and with their respective friends abroad, to stop using Jews in their propaganda warfare.
JASA ALMULI London N3
Soll ich dem Zentralrat der Juden Glauben oder vesti.hr?
thatz_me
Top-Poster
Wer waren wohl die ersten Massaker-Opfer im Bosnien-Krieg?
Stichwort Sjikeovac....
Rülps nicht so viel herum, Cetnik....
Immerhin haben Serben den Krieg begonnen. Stichwort: Ravno
Princip_Grahovo
Gesperrt
Soso, soll ich meine Geschichte aus vesti.hr oder darko.hr lernen?
Ich schlag mal lieber Deutsches Historisches Museum vor:
Nach der Besetzung Jugoslawiens durch die Wehrmacht im Frühjahr 1941 und dem Zerfall des Vielvölkerstaats nahm in Serbien eine nationalistische Gruppe unter Oberst Dragoljub Mihailovic (1893-1946) als erste Partisaneneinheit im Zweiten Weltkrieg den Kampf gegen die Deutschen auf. Mihailovic zog sich mit seinen nur schwach bewaffneten Milizen - den sogenannten Cetniks -ins Gebirge zurück, um von dort aus in kleineren Operationen gegen die Besatzer zu kämpfen Aus Rache für die ersten spontanen Widerstandsaktionen führten die Deutschen im Herbst 1941 Massenerschießungen durch, denen Zehntausende Serben zum Opfer fielen. Auch um weitere Massaker unter der Zivilbevölkerung zu vermeiden, sahen die Aufständischen von größeren Aktionen ab. Eine umfassende bewaffnete Erhebung sollte erst ausgerufen werden, wenn die Besatzer in einem Kleinkrieg zermürbt worden waren und sich auch die allgemeine Kriegslage gegen sie gewendet hatte.
Partisanenkrieg in Jugoslawien
Aber bitte niemand verbietet Dir dich an vest.hr zu halten.
Princip_Grahovo
Gesperrt
Ach ivo, ich habe Dir so viele gute Quellen gegeben (Deutsche Historisches Museum, Zentralrat der Juden Serbins, Wehrmachtsmuseum).
Und bitte erspare mir Wikipaedia wo jeder Hanswurst was reinmachen kann.