Geschichte Serbien-Montenegro's identisch - Ein Volk eine Ethnie | Jüngere Geschichte

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[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=+2]Montenegro[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=+1]Charles Seignobos, A Political History of Europe, since 1814, ed. S. M. Macvane, H. Holt and Company, New York, 1900, pp. 663-664; excerpt from chapter XXI The Christian Nations of The Balkans, subchapter Servia and Montenegro, passages Montenegro[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1] Tchernagora, better known by the Italian name Montenegro, is a small, almost inaccessible country lying in the range of mountains that skirts the eastern Adriatic. It had maintained itself as a practically independent district within the Ottoman Empire. Its inhabitants, Orthodox Serbs, nominally Turkish subjects, formed a small nation of armed mountaineers, governed by a family of national and religious leaders who succeed each other from uncle to nephew, with the title of Vladika or prince-bishop. It was a democracy of warriors; the women cultivated the land and the men practised arms. The neighbourhood of Herzegovina gave Montenegro a political rôle; the Vladikas became allies of Russia, which used the Montenegrins to rouse the Christian Serbs of Herzegovina and to make raids upon the Turks.

In 1851 Danilo, on succeeding his uncle, dropped the title of Vladika, married, and founded the dynasty of the princes of Montenegro. The Sultan sent an army against him, which the Tsar obliged him to recall ( 1852). Then, in return for the attitude he had taken in the Crimean war, the Prince of Montenegro received an annual subsidy from the Tsar. Danilo was killed by a private enemy in 1860 and was succeeded by his nephew Nikita.

Montenegrin political life consisted of little more than the almost continual struggle against the Mussulmans, which came to open war during the Herzegovina insurrections (1862 and 1876). Russia repaid Montenegro's services in the campaign of 1877 by making the Sultan cede to her a larger and more populous territory than the whole former principality, with a port which assured her communication with Europe (1878). But the Albanian Mussulmans who occupied the country refused to give it up; and Montenegro got possession of it only after a long war and the famous demonstration of the European fleets before Dulcigno.

Of domestic political life there has been extremely little. The prince, once officially independent of the Sultan, has remained an absolute sovereign, controlling the budget, exercising all the powers, appointing even Church officials. But he has covered the patriarchal system with European forms. The administrative Statute of 1879 established a legislative Council of State of 8 members, half chosen by the prince, the other half elected by the people. A legal code of the French sort has been adopted. The organization has remained military, the people divided into tribes, each with its elective elders and its military chief. But the princely family of Montenegro, by means of marriages with the reigning families of Russia (1889) and Italy (1896), has entered the society of European dynasties.

Seignobos, Montenegro... its inhabitants, Orthodox Serbs
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Part two: History of the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Montenegro

During the 16th and 17th centuries their Orthodox Metropolitans together with the leaders of the clans lead people of Montenegro. With more or less success they were fighting the Turks who never completely conquered Montenegrin mountains. In this struggle the Venetians were often their allies, but never their true friends.
The destruction of the old Cetinje Monastery perpetrated by the Venetians and the Turks in 1692. with the emergence of the Petrovic family on the historical scene (1697.) mark the beginning of a new phase in the Montenegrin history. Montenegro led by Metropolitan Danilo I Petrovic turns completely towards the Russian Empire that through its power and authority strengthens the institution of etnarchy (with the metropolitans being heads of the Church and rulers of the state at the same time). The Petrovic dynasty ruled Montenegro for 220 years, from 1697 – 1918. The Metropolitans of Montenegro, all of them members of this family were: Danilo I Petrovic Njegos (1697-1735), Sava Petrovic Njegos (1735-1781), St. Petar I Petrovic Njegos (1784-1830), Petar II Petrovic Njegos (1830-1851). After the repose of Petar II, state of Montenegro is no longer ruled by the Metropolitans, since his successor the grand-duke Danilo Petrovic does not want to become a metropolitan.
All Metropolitans and rulers from the Petrovic family, as well as their predecessors and the people of Montenegro always considered themselves to be Serbs who live in Montenegro, which was, as a separate entity, for a long time the only Serbian land free of the foreign occupation.[1] Even after the illegal and anti-canonical abolition of the Patriarchate of Pec (the name of The Serbian Orthodox Church at that time) in 1766. Metropolitans of Montenegro have very ambitiously defined their struggle with the following objectives: 1.) driving the Turks off the Serbian lands, 2.) reestablishment of the free and independent Serbian state, 3.) Restitution of the autocephalous Serbian Patriarchate of Pec [2].
In the times of grand-duke and (as of 1910.) king of Montenegro Nikola I Petrovic we can see the culmination of the geopolitical idea to unify the Serbian nation, as well as the spiritual need to unite the Serbian church . The territory of Montenegro was almost doubled and the church spread into three dioceses. In these circumstances, expressing the inner need of all inhabitants of Montenegro, the president of its government Dr. Lazar Tomanovic, said the following in his speech at the historic event of the coronation of king Nikola I Petrovic: The Metropolitanate of Montenegro is the only diocese founded by St. Sava which was uninterruptedly preserved until today, and as such represents the lawful throne and a descendant of The Patriarchate of Pec.
After the Serbian victory in the First World War by the end of 1918. Montenegro enters the political union with Serbia under the Karadjordjevic dynasty. It is important to stress that this resolved the long-standing dynastic rivalry between the two Serbian royal families: the Petrovic family and the Karadjordjevic family. The decision was taken at the historical Great people's council of Podgorica on 26th of November 1918. with the active participation [3] of representatives from the Metropolitanate of Montenegro. The main decisions reached at the event were: 1.) The unification of Serbia and Montenegro, 2.) dethronization of king Nikola I Petrovic and the acceptance of Karadjordjevic dynasty. Although most Montenegrins were in fervour of these decisions, one part of king Nikola's supporters (the greens) wished to preserve the Petrovic dynasty, and also wanted the union with Serbia but under completely different terms (a federal union and not a centralised one).
The unification of the Serbian church was, however, a completely different issue supported by both sides in the dispute, the greens (federalists) and the whites (centralists). The dethroned king Nikola I Petrovic never opposed the unification of the church. The decision to unify the Metropolitanate of Montenegro with the other Serbian dioceses, was reached on the 16th of December 1918. by the Bishops Council of the Montenegrin Metropolitanate as the only institution empowered by the church law to do so.[4] The Bishops Council unanimously accepted the following proposal: " That the independent Serbian – Orthodox Holy Church in Montenegro unites with the autocephalous Orthodox Church in The Kingdom of Serbia." (The Decision of The Bishops Council, Nr. 1169, 16th of December 1918, Cetinje). This decision was signed by all diocesan bishops in Montenegro: Metropolitan of Montenegro Mitrofan Ban, Metropolitan of Pec Dr. Gavrilo Dozic and the Bishop of Niksic Kiril Mitrovic. Everybody gladly accepted unification of the church in Montenegro and that is testified not only in the documents and sources cited here but also through the fact that not a single document pointing in a different direction was ever produced. The decision of the Church regarding the unification was accepted and confirmed by his majesty king Aleksandar I Karadjordjevic in 1920. His festive declaration as to the unification of The Serbian Church came two years after the Church already reached the decision to unify.

 

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Dieser Part ist interessant wo die Kommunisten ab 1945 anfingen unsere eigenen Leute die Köpfe zu waschen, ihnen einzureden das sie keine Serben sind das sie nicht serbisch-orthodox sind sondern ethnische Montis und montenegrinisch-orthodo, später im Jahr 1990 wurden dann auch von Sektenführern die Montenegrinisch-Orthodoxe Kirche ausgerufen. Heute haben sie ca. 5% der serbisch-orthodoxen Kirchen in CG enteignet oder auch teilweise selber welche erbaut.

Zwar etwas lang aber für unsere großen Montis MNE-Mix und Al Bundy bestimmt interessant.



Part three: History of the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Montenegro and the Littoral – from World War II till present time

During the Second World War and after the communists came to power in 1945. the Orthodox Metropolitanate of Montenegro and the Littoral suffered the worst imaginable persecution at the hands of the atheist regime. Communists have killed 105 priests and thousands of patriotically oriented Montenegrin people. Fifteen other priests were killed by the fascist occupiers. Metropolitan of Montenegro Joanikije (Lipovac) was also brutally murdered by the communists in 1945. The new regime exerted unprecedented pressures upon the remaining clergy to abandon their flocks. The property belonging to the Church was forcefully and illegally confiscated, many churches and monasteries turned into police stations, stables for cattle and warehouses. Communists in 1972. seriously damaged the "spiritual veil" of Montenegro, by destroying the church dedicated to St. Petar I Petrovic (St. Petar of Cetinje) and desecrated the tomb of the world famous poet, Metropolitan Petar II Petrovic Njegos who built this church on top of the Lovcen mountain. This barbarous act shows the regime's arrogant disregard for the last will of Petar II Petrovic, ages old Christian traditions of Montenegro and even the laws that communists themselves established after they came to power in 1945. In these circumstances the life of the Orthodox Church in Montenegro was totally side-tracked and marginalized by the communist government. This period can be marked as the time of open and brutal persecution of the Church. Unfortunately all of this seems to have past relatively unnoticed by the main human rights organisations in the world.
The present Metropolitan of Montenegro Dr. Amfilohije Radovic becomes the head of the Orthodox Church in Montenegro in 1990, at the same time when the processes of deconstructing the old communist system result in the free democratic elections. Hoping that the old times and the old ways have passed the Metropolitanate of Montenegro and the Littoral quickly started to flourish. The number of priests, monks and nuns as well as the number of the faithful increased rapidly. The same can be said for many monasteries and parish churches that were rebuilt and brought back to their former glory. For example from only 10 active monasteries with about 20 monks and nuns in 1991, Montenegro now has 30 active monasteries with more than 160 monks and nuns living and praying in them. The number of parish priests was also increased from 20 in 1991, to more than 60 today.
However, the blossoming of the resurrected Orthodox Church in Montenegro immediately became a thorn in the side of the old communist aparatchiks now disguised as members of certain political parties and various other non -governmental organisations. These people are trying very hard to legitimise themselves and pose as democrats in the changed circumstances, but their communist anti-church mentality seems still to prevail.
Understanding well, that it is no longer politically profitable to openly position themselves against the real Church, these new "democrats" decide to change tactics. People who for 50 years brutally persecuted the Orthodox Church in Montenegro now decide to form the "church" according to their own image and likeness. Consequently, four disreputable individuals who perfectly fit the role are found:

1. 
   [*]Miras Dedeic (place and the time of birth uncertain), self proclaimed metropolitan, defrocked and returned to the order of laity by the decision of The Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I and The Holy Synod of the Ecumenical Orthodox Patriarchate of Constantinople in April of 1997.
   [*]Zivorad Pavlovic, runaway and defrocked priest from the town of Smederevo (Serbia). Wanted for serious charges of theft and sought by the Serbian police.
   [*]Milutin Cvijic, born in Teslic ( Bosnia), former priest monk in Ostrog monastery. Defrocked as a priest since he broke his monastic vows and got married.
   [*]Jelisej Lalatovic, former monk, defrocked for theft of church property.

These church delinquents are leaders of the so called "Montenegrin orthodox church". Meanwhile, because their "clergy" are without canonical legitimacy in the world of Orthodox Christianity and consequently in the rest of the Christian world at large, our disguised communists return to their "old ways" and illegal methods:

1. 
   [*]Open extortion of property that legally belongs to The Orthodox Metropolitanate of Montenegro and the Littoral.
   [*]The brutal breaking of the rules of the Montenegrin Constitution, and the laws and regulations stemming from it. Constitution as the republic's main legal act allows the existence of just one Orthodox church in Montenegro[5]5.
   [*]The campaign organised by the state media, that identifies the robbers dressed as priests with the real and legally recognised clergy.
   [*]Introduction of the new, and until now in the spheres of international law unrecognised principle which through the collection of signatures enables the take-over of property that is legally owned by somebody else (the Church in this case).
   [*]The decision of Montenegrin president Mr. Djukanovic to publicly support the destructive pseudo-religious organisation called the "MOC" by sending them Easter greetings this year, through which he, in a well known authoritarian communist manner, put himself against and above the legal arbitration of the Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, Patriarch of Moscow and All of Russia Alexei II, Patriarch of the Serbian Orthodox Church Pavle, Archbishop of Greece Christodoulos as well as the other leaders of autocephalous orthodox churches throughout the world. In legal terms his move equals the hypothetical situation in which the president of Italy congratulates Easter to a new and self-proclaimed Pope of Rome, not recognised by anybody, and also unacceptable to all in the Roman Catholic Church.

The question is why the regime in Montenegro, which tries to present itself as the modern democratic state ruled by law and which persistently uses the rhetoric of democracy, at the same time tries to legalise a pseudo-religious organisation by registering it in a local police station and encouraging these people to break the law by barging into legally owned property of the Church and falsely presenting themselves in the public. Through all of the above, the regime is seen as supporting the rule of the media directed chaos, which is used as the stimulus for reaching the atmosphere of total anarchy in which "anything goes".
Footnotes

1 Danilo I Petrovic Njegos wrote in a gospel book in 1732. : "Danil, Bishop of Cetinje, Njegos, the protector of the Serbian land". St. Petar I of Cetinje writes to Archimandrite Arsenije Gagovic in his letter dated 31st August 1804.: "...and do not be surprised my dear father Archimandrite. We the Serbs are of such kind...".
In another letter to the Serbian grand-duke Milos Obrenovic St. Petar I writes: "...from the time of the destruction of the Serbian Empire, of all the parts of the Serbian people only Montenegro completely preserved till today the voice of freedom and the Christian faith.
2 St. Petar I in a letter (he co-wrote and delivered with the two Montenegrin clan leaders in 1779. when he still was a young Archimandrite) to the Austro-Hungarian Empress Mary Therese writes the following:
"... We want The Metropolitan of Montenegro to depend upon the Patriarch of Pec in Serbia. When the existing metropolitan reposes we accept for now that his successor be ordained in Karlovci,... but only until the Turkish rule over Serbia lasts and we can't send him to Pec freely."
In 1806. St Petar I sends another letter to the Russian Tsar Alexander I in which he explains his daring plan for the renewal of the " Slav-Serbian empire".
After the liberation of Pec from the Turks in 1912., King Nikola I Petrovic of Montenegro in his farewell speech on the 27th November 1913. to the new Metropolitan of Pec Dr. Gavrilo Dozic says: Your Grace! The keys of the holy and beautiful Serbian churches, which I received through the mercy of God from the hands of my victorious army I give to You with the blessing of His Grace Metropolitan Mitrofan (Metropolitan of Montenegro) that in them You light the new and glorious light ... The heavenly angels, the holy kings and patriarchs which eternally rest in the realm of Your God-protected diocese, will rejoice when under the roofs of their temples Serbian songs start echoing with the prayers for health and happiness of the Serbian nation... Your first prayer there should be the thanksgiving offered to God for these happy days, for the rest of the souls of Serbs who died as well as those Serbs who worked and struggled towards the liberation of our nation.
3 Even before the Great people's council in Podgorica begun its work, Metropolitan of Montenegro Mitrofan Ban sent an official letter (Nr. 1229 9th of November 1918.) to the archpriest of Podgorica Dusan Petrovic stating: "There (in Podgorica) will be a Great people's council so we are ordering you to put yourself at its disposal and be ready to perform any church service if needed."
On the 12th of November 1918. Metropolitan of Montenegro Mitrofan Ban in his telegram directed to the Great people's council of Podgorica stated:.. " As a spiritual leader I pray to God to that He gives You strength in the future so that you manage to accomplish your task in the spirit of those high ideals for which our glorious ancestors lived and died for. This is the liberation and the unification of the Serbian nation, and the formation of Great Yugoslavia. In the name of all this I pray to God that He sends His blessing upon the Great people's council and its holy work.
4 "The Law of the Orthodox Church", Dr. Nikodim Milas, Zadar 1890., pages 220-221:
All fullness of the Church authority is concentrated in the Bishops Council, in such an absolute sense of the word, that without it, the Church would stops being what it is, and Her constitution would cease to be instituted by the Founder of the Church (Christ Himself).
5 The Constitution of the Republic of Montenegro regarding the issue reads as follows:
"Article 11: Denominations

- The Orthodox Church, The Islamic Religious Community, The Roman Catholic Church, and other denominations are separated from the state.
- Denominations are equal and free to perform religious services and actions.
- Denominations independently determine their own internal structure and religious practices within the limits of the legal system."
[The Church is separated from the state but legal relations between them, in all civilised western European countries are regulated so that the state accepts, guarantees and protects the legal and inalienable rights of the church itself (in Europe this usually means each Christian denomination: Orthodox, Roman Catholic or various Protestant ones) to independently determine "who is the church". All modern European democratic states recognise, accept and protect the church laws in this domain. The state warrants the implementation of decisions and rulings of the church courts, which practically confirms and means that The State recognises the Church.]

 

[skorpion]

So mein Freund zu dir....



Faktisch gesehen ist Kosovo eine historische serbische Region wer sind für dich Kosovaren? Albanische Vasallen die mit den Okkupatoren 500 Jahre das Land besetzt halten und dann soll man sie noch dafür belohnen??? Oder sind Serben die Kosovaren die das Land beschützt haben? Wer sind JKosovaren erklär mir mal das Volk Kosovaren wo her es stammt, den Namenm den Ursprung ich warte......




Was willst du jetzt damit sagen? Willst du damit das serbische Fürstentum Crnojevici ansprechen das sich in den schwarzen Bergen länger halten konnte und so ein serbisches Fürstentum aufrecht erhalten haben???





Eine der ersten was verstehst du daran nicht? Mitte 12 Jahrhundert Unabhängig wo war da zB Deutschland? 14 Jahrhundert hatten wir unsere Verfassung mit Gesetzen alles drum und dran wann hatte Deutschland ihre erste Verfassung?




Wer ist hier eine Pfeife du kleiner gopttloser Kommunist der sich an fremde Geschichte klammert`???? Wer ist hier der der klaut der raubt? Erklär mir deine Geschichte wer sind diese ethnischen Montis wo kamen sie her welche Geschichte haben sie ich lausche?




So wie du es gelesen hast eine der ersten "Unabhängigen " Staaten Europas mit Montenegro als Mutterland.





Du kleiner dreckiger mieser Kommunist Gottloser!!!!

WENN DU NICHT MEHR WILLST DAS DU SERBE BIST DANN SUCH DIR AUCH EINE NEUE GESCHICHTE!!! WENN DU SAGEN WILLST OK FÜHLE MICH NICHT MEHR ALS SERBE DANN HÖRE AUCH AUF DIE SERBISCHE GESSCHICHTE MONTENEGROS FÜR DICH ZU BEANSPRUCHEN!!! AUCH NOCH DIESE SITUATION MIT YUGOS ZU VERGLEICHEN DIE TOTAL HINKT. WILLST DU MONTIS UND SERBEN MIT KROATEN;BULAGREN;SLOWENEN UND SERBEN VERGLEICHEN??? XA XA XA XA XA XA !!!!! DAS WÄTRE ALS WENN DU LIKA KROATEN MIT DALMATIEN KROATEN VERGLEICHST ODER ZAGREB KROATEN MIT SLAWONIEN KROATEN UND DANN SAGST LIKA IST EIN EIGENES VOLK.

DIE GESCHICHTE MONTENEGROS LIEF SEIN EIGENEN WEG??? SAG MAL WIESO LÜGST DU SO DERARTIG DRECKIG ICH FORDER VON DIR EIN BEWEIS WO MONTENEGRO EIGENSTÄNDIG IHRE GESCHICHTE GELAUFEN IST??? ALLES WAREN SIE SERBISCHE LÄNDER FÜRSTENTÜMER DIE SICH NUR GESPALTEN HABEN WEIL SIE MUSSTEN WEGEN DEN TÜRKEN NICHT WEIL SIE SICH ALS EIGENES VOLK GEFÜHLT HABEN!!

WEISST DU WO DEINE GESCHICHTE ANFÄNGT??? PAPA TITO DAS IST DEIN GRÜNDER ALSO 1945:. ALLES DAVOR GEHÖRT DER SERBISCHEN GESCHICHTE AN.

SAG MAL IST ES DIR NICHT PEINLICH NJEGOS ZU VERHERLICHEN UND DABEI GLEICHZEITIG AUF IHN ZU SCHEISSEN??


DEINE SIGNATUR SAGT SCHON ALLES.... TITOGRAD. COVEK NEK TI BOG OPROSTI TVOJE GREHE. JADNJICE JEDAN BEZ SRCA I ISTORIJE

Eigentlich ist es mir zu dumm, auf solchen Mist zu antworten, aber ich hatte auch keine Lust, Dich deshalb zu verwarnen, immerhin hast Du ja mitten in der Nacht und vermutlich auch im Slivo-Glimmer geschrieben, ich kenne das.

Die Kosovaren sind für mich, der begrifflichen Einfachheit halber, diejenigen Bewohner der Region, die aus dieser ehemaligen serbischen Provinz unter zugegebenermaßen "merkwürdigen" Umständen so etwas wie einen mehr oder weniger "unabhängigen" Staat gegründet haben. Immerhin leben sie ja auch schon eine ganze Weile dort und Grenzen ändern sich eben im Laufe der Geschichte und mit wechselnden Machtverhältnissen. Das mag einem gefallen oder auch nicht, aber auch die Serben waren ja nicht die Ersten, die das heutige Serbien besiedelt haben.

Mitte des 12. Jh ist zwar schon eine ganze Weile her, aber bereits damals war es etliche Jahrhunderte her, daß die Staaten der Antike Verfassungen hatten. Die älteste Verfassung "Deutschlands" würde ich in das 8. Jh. legen (Karl der Große). Alternativ, wenn Dir das nicht "deutsch" genug ist, nehmen wir das Deutsche Reich (hier heißt es bereits so) unter Kaiser Friedrich I. (1152-90, also ebenfalls 12. Jh.), aber es gab bereits Germanische Reichsbildungen zur Zeit Chlodwigs (482-511) oder Theodorichs (493-526). Soviel dazu.

Wie Du ja in einem anderen Thread selbst erkannt hast, waren zahlreiche namhafte Serbenführer Montenegriner. Wer also waren die Serben?

Ich will jetzt nicht auf alle diese wirren Ausführungen eingehen, aber um mal bei Kroatien zu bleiben, das belastet Dich vielleicht emotional nicht so stark, kann man durchaus die Ansicht vertreten, daß es ein Zusammenschluß mehrerer verschiedener Völker ist. Die einzelnen Landesteile unterscheiden sich ja in Musik, Architektur, Sprache, Küche und Geschichte zum Teil erheblich- wie auch in Italien, Deutschland oder anderen Staaten, wo sich verschiedene Stämme (also im Prinzip kleine Völker) zu einem größeren Volk, einer Nation vereint haben.

Zuerst einmal: Du hast von mir überhaupt nichts zu fordern. Aber es ist ja wohl völlig unumstritten, daß Montenegro über das ganze 20. Jh. verteilt, immer wieder ein eigener Staat war oder auch nur unter anderer Fremdherrschaft stand als Serbien. Das ist präzise das, was man eine eigene Geschichte nennt.

Ich verstehe aber ehrlich gesagt nicht, was Du damit für ein Problem hast. Man hat doch eigentlich die meiste Zeit gut zusammengelebt.

 

[Der_Buchhalter]

Eigentlich ist es mir zu dumm, auf solchen Mist zu antworten, aber ich hatte auch keine Lust, Dich deshalb zu verwarnen, immerhin hast Du ja mitten in der Nacht und vermutlich auch im Slivo-Glimmer geschrieben, ich kenne das.

Die Kosovaren sind für mich, der begrifflichen Einfachheit halber, diejenigen Bewohner der Region, die aus dieser ehemaligen serbischen Provinz unter zugegebenermaßen "merkwürdigen" Umständen so etwas wie einen mehr oder weniger "unabhängigen" Staat gegründet haben. Immerhin leben sie ja auch schon eine ganze Weile dort und Grenzen ändern sich eben im Laufe der Geschichte und mit wechselnden Machtverhältnissen. Das mag einem gefallen oder auch nicht, aber auch die Serben waren ja nicht die Ersten, die das heutige Serbien besiedelt haben.

Mitte des 12. Jh ist zwar schon eine ganze Weile her, aber bereits damals war es etliche Jahrhunderte her, daß die Staaten der Antike Verfassungen hatten. Die älteste Verfassung "Deutschlands" würde ich in das 8. Jh. legen (Karl der Große). Alternativ, wenn Dir das nicht "deutsch" genug ist, nehmen wir das Deutsche Reich (hier heißt es bereits so) unter Kaiser Friedrich I. (1152-90, also ebenfalls 12. Jh.), aber es gab bereits Germanische Reichsbildungen zur Zeit Chlodwigs (482-511) oder Theodorichs (493-526). Soviel dazu.

Wie Du ja in einem anderen Thread selbst erkannt hast, waren zahlreiche namhafte Serbenführer Montenegriner. Wer also waren die Serben?

Ich will jetzt nicht auf alle diese wirren Ausführungen eingehen, aber um mal bei Kroatien zu bleiben, das belastet Dich vielleicht emotional nicht so stark, kann man durchaus die Ansicht vertreten, daß es ein Zusammenschluß mehrerer verschiedener Völker ist. Die einzelnen Landesteile unterscheiden sich ja in Musik, Architektur, Sprache, Küche und Geschichte zum Teil erheblich- wie auch in Italien, Deutschland oder anderen Staaten, wo sich verschiedene Stämme (also im Prinzip kleine Völker) zu einem größeren Volk, einer Nation vereint haben.

Zuerst einmal: Du hast von mir überhaupt nichts zu fordern. Aber es ist ja wohl völlig unumstritten, daß Montenegro über das ganze 20. Jh. verteilt, immer wieder ein eigener Staat war oder auch nur unter anderer Fremdherrschaft stand als Serbien. Das ist präzise das, was man eine eigene Geschichte nennt.

Ich verstehe aber ehrlich gesagt nicht, was Du damit für ein Problem hast. Man hat doch eigentlich die meiste Zeit gut zusammengelebt.

Was für ein Schrott wie kann Montenegro wenn es unter Serbien steht als Fremdherrschaft betitelt werden Montenegro ist doch die Mutter der Serben. Du hast ja mal echt keine Ahnung.

Wahrscheinlich bist du Bosniake der sich hier als großen Sohn von Njegos ausgibt. Dabei wissenw ir doch alle der größte Montenegriner Njegos war der stolzeste Serbe überhaupt.

Lang lebe Montenegro! oder auch der serbische Sprich dazu "Oj svijetla majska zoro"!

YouTube - ‪Srpski Guslar Djordjije Koprivica - Njegos‬‏

 

[Josip Frank]

Was für ein Schrott wie kann Montenegro wenn es unter Serbien steht als Fremdherrschaft betitelt werden Montenegro ist doch die Mutter der Serben. Du hast ja mal echt keine Ahnung.

das ist eine Vatikan Lüge. Die Mutter der Serben ist die heilige bestellte Erde im Kosovo.

Wahrscheinlich bist du Bosniake der sich hier als großen Sohn von Njegos ausgibt. Dabei wissenw ir doch alle der größte Montenegriner Njegos war der stolzeste Serbe überhaupt.

Lang lebe Montenegro! oder auch der serbische Sprich dazu "Oj svijetla majska zoro"!

YouTube - ‪Srpski Guslar Djordjije Koprivica - Njegos‬‏

Majka nasa Crna Goro...................

 

[Der_Buchhalter]

das ist eine Vatikan Lüge. Die Mutter der Serben ist die heilige bestellte Erde im Kosovo.

Kosovo ist das Herz Montenegros nicht nur Serbiens, erkundige dich mal besser.

Majka nasa Crna Goro...................

Kako nismo isti procitaj ove moje threadove pa ce da vidis da smo isti. dzabe sto Vujo mora da prica sta mu Milo kaze.

 

[Lahutari]

Kosovo ist das Herz ,Montenegro die Mutter und Tokijo die Leber oder was?

 

[Josip Frank]

Kosovo ist das Herz Montenegros nicht nur Serbiens, erkundige dich mal besser.

ach so ...verstehe.....der Kosovo ist also der Herzschrittmacher, damit die Dummheit in Serbien nicht ausstirbt.

Kako nismo isti procitaj ove moje threadove pa ce da vidis da smo isti. dzabe sto Vujo mora da prica sta mu Milo kaze.

du musst dich an Vujanovic wenden ....oder du organisierst am besten eine Demo damit die Mutter Monte zum Vater Zott nach Serbien zurückkehrt...

 

[Der_Buchhalter]

ach so ...verstehe.....der Kosovo ist also der Herzschrittmacher, damit die Dummheit in Serbien nicht ausstirbt.





du musst dich an Vujanovic wenden ....oder du organisierst am besten eine Demo damit die Mutter Monte zum Vater Zott nach Serbien zurückkehrt...

Ma Gott soll dir deine Faschistengedanken raustreiben und dein Serbenkomplex glaub mir deine Ustrasagedanken bringen nichts da kannst du noch so sehr meine Fakten versuchen ins lächerliche zu ziehen sie bleiben Fakten. Alles nachzulesen hier im Thread oder auch im anderen.