hippokrates
γαμάω και
So, ich hab heute genug gelacht. Verabschiede mich...
...bis morgen.
Hippokrates
...bis morgen.
Hippokrates
-
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"Alexander, der Slawe"
- Ersteller hippokrates
- Erstellt am
Černozemski
Македон&
Ich kann echt nicht mehr...meine Bauchmuskeln schmerzen schon vom Lachen.
...und die Quelle erst.
Paokara, klick mal auf die "Straba-Struba-Verlinkung".
Hippokrates
Hä :-s
Černozemski
Македон&
Monkeydonian
Gesperrt
GRATITUDE OF ALEXANDER THE MACEDONIAN
TO THE SLAVS
The Charter is re-published in 1601 the Macedonians are not Greeks, said Alexander the Macedonian
Since distant past I was interested in the whole book “The Kingdom of the Slavs” by Mauro Orbini. It is already forgotten book, published in parts, and yet there are certain truths in it which should be published again, no matter what capacity they contain.
Mauro Orbini is an interesting medieval person who lived on the passage between the XVI and XVII century. He is a famous writer of travelogues, a historian, but some consider him as the father of the panslavism. He was born in Dubrovnik, lived and worked in Italy. In his historical research he was bold, he based on facts and the conclusions he was bringing, were in service to the slavinism. He penetrated deeply into the history of the Slavs, of course as much as his time made it possible. In some places he has got some unclear features, and he couldn’t see through many things. However, I am not saying all this in order to judge as some historian , but to bring out just few pages of this remarkable writing named “The Kingdom of the Slavs”. That book is very rear and came into my hands in order for me to see it and copy it in the Vatican library, in the fall 1990. Orbini’s book has got over five hundred pages in a large format. It was published in 1601 in Pezaro. In it he gives a wide view upon the development of the Slavic nations, with a special part about Southern Slavs.
In the book “The Kingdom of the Slavs” I was especially drawn by one part I want to quote, and I leave the impression to the reader. That part arises a deliberation about something which was disturbing the spirits four hundred years ago, and that restlessness exists today as well, when certain circles from abroad are trying to spread untruths that, for example, the ancient Macedonians were Greeks, etc.
ALEXANDER THE MACEDONIAN AND THE SLAVS
The part of the book refers to Alexander the Macedonian and the Slavs. Yes, the Slavs, too. Truly, Orbini as an author, is not alone in that way, but it will be seen that he is original. When we are on this subject, our historians strictly expostulate against such comparison, more than their colleagues around the world and therefore, everyone who initiates these matters is either naive, or a romantic or a mystifier. But, let us leave that. I don’t want to prove anything here, because I haven’t got such an ambition, but I want to announce integrally to our public The Privilege Alexander the Macedonian gave to the Slavs, as a gratitude for their participation in his wars and conquests.
Mauro Orbini says that this Charter was found in Constantinople. In order to confirm the writing in the Charter, he uses other sources as well, and among the other, he says that the Macedonians were not Greeks, that those were two neighboring nations, that the Macedonians conquered the Greeks, and that even though they participated together in all the conquests, they spoke different languages. The Charter, however unbelievable it may seem, is written in a high style and it is good the Charter to be published into Macedonian language.
The book “The Kingdom of the Slavs” is written in older Italian language. For better comprehension of the authenticity of the text, I asked Augusto Fonseca, an Italian poet and a lector in Italian language at the University “Saint Kiril and Metodi”, and an excellent connoisseur of the Macedonian language as well, to translate this part, from page 168 to 171 of the book.
In the book Orbini says:
“This Privilege, as we have said, was found after so many centuries in Constantinople by certain Julio Baldasar, a royal secretary. So, the name that is mentioned here - Slavs, Apian from Alexandria in “Iliricum”, calls these Agrians well-known and famous, and that is exactly what the word “Slavs” or “Slovenes” means.
The town of Agria situated in Dakia was founded (according to Bonfinio in the 1st book of 1 Dec.) by these Agrians who lived (according to Stephan the Byzantine) in the areas between the mountains Emos and Rodopies, near Macedonia. Macedonia however, was continually colonized by the Slavic nation and new-comers from Tyre, even though some thought that the Macedonians belonged to the society of the Greeks. To oppose them, I bring the opinion of Stephan the Byzantine about Alexander the Macedonian, who very clearly differs the language of the Macedonians from the language of the Greeks.
From this it can be clearly seen that Macedonian speech couldn’t be understood by all participants of Alexander’s army, because a great part of it consisted of Greeks. And truly, when Alexander told to Philota, the son of Parmenion, who wanted to expound his personal matter to the crowds: “The Macedonians oh, Philota, will condemn you; therefore I ask you, will you address them on your maternal language”, and Philota refused to do so, because he would not be understood by all. Then Alexander stated that Philota hated his maternal language.
MACEDONIANS ARE NOT GREEKS
So, if Macedonians were Greeks, why would Philota refuse to speak Greek in front of the Greeks? And even more, having in mind that he did not have more appropriate language than the Greek, supposedly if Macedonians were Greeks. Because (as Plinius says it, book VII, chapter 57) the passive willingness of the people was the first reason for the usage of the Ionian literacy. So, the maternal language of the Macedonians, which differs from the one we think was the general language of the whole army of Alexander, clearly shows that the Macedonians do not belong to the Greeks; as it is known, out of the ancient unity of the language, the unity of the nationality is confirmed as well. According to it, when distinguishing the languages at Nembrot, none of the authors confirmed anything opposite; The Greeks through their language do not draw near to the Macedonians; and we have shown enough, based upon the mere difference between the languages, that the Macedonians are not Greeks; then based upon the words of Phillip of Bergamo, we must admit that the Macedonians from all times, up until nowadays have got a Slavic language. Well, what would you think about Tukidid, who by joining Byzantium and Pula, a large part of Trakia and Mezia, and the whole Iliricum, all of these countries calls Macedonia? It would be the same as if he had said: I reckon that Trakia, Mezia and Iliricum must not be separated from the Macedonians. Therefore, I don’t doubt that the Trakians, Mezians and Ilircs are bound together with Macedonians. A witness to that is the title of Alexander the Macedonian presenting him as the King of the Macedonians and Greeks. Much stronger witnesses are the basic differences in the customs and lifestyle between the Macedonians and Greeks allowing me to be easily convinced that there are different traditions and customs even among people of the same kindred. That is why, according to the telling of K. Kurtius, when Diosip of Athens had to fight chest to chest against Horata the Macedonian, there were some Greeks among Alexander’s soldiers who supported Diosip; but if Macedonians had been Greeks, why didn’t the Greeks give the same treatment to Horata the Macedonian, as they supported Diosip only because he was a Greek? Therefore, if sometimes mostly among the Barbarians, there is a saying that Alexander was Greek, it’s because they were most familiar with the Greeks, because of their past wars against the nations of East; therefore they considered all nations on West to be Greeks; something similar is happening nowadays, when Greeks together with Turks and all other nations from East consider all catholic nations to be Franks.
Jeremiah Ruso in “The Chronicles of Moscovia” clearly states that the Russians, meaning the Moscowians had the same language as the ancient Macedonians; and King Phillip, the father of Alexander the Macedonian was born among them, who (as Plutarch in “The life of Alexander”, Yustin in VIIIth book and Sabelik in the III book of “Eneida”, and others tell us) submitted the strongest towns in Greece under his laws, enslaved Greece (who until then had freedom) and through his glorious deeds reached the greatness of the most famous kings. His son Alexander the Macedonian expanded through the boundaries of the earth (according to the First book of Macabians, chapter 1), took the treasures of many people, even making the earth numb. After Alexander’s death, Macedonians governed all nations in the world as well as the Egyptians for 276 years” says Mauro Orbini.
From the book “The Kingdom of the Slavs” by Mauro Orbini, published in 1601, in Pezaro, page 168 - 171.
MACEDONIANS WERE HERE FROM ALL TIMES
Talking to Mr.Boris Visinski, he explained to us how he had managed to fid and copy the book “The Kingdom of the Slavs” by the Italian historian Mauro Orbini.
In the ‘80ties, when I was searching information about the Bogomils through some libraries, said Mr.Visinski, one Italian friend of mine - a historian, pointed out to me several books about those heretical movements in the Middle Age.
And since he had known I was a Macedonian, he asked me if I had read Mauro Orbini’s book - “The Kingdom of the Slavs”. I told him I had heard of only one part of that book concerning Serbia being published in Belgrade. And since this book spoke of almost all Slavic nations, he suggested that I look for the original version of it.
Through the help of some friends, catholic majesties, I managed to find this book in the Vatican library and copy it. The first thing I noticed in this book was the alphabet registry. In it, under the letter “M”, the first direction states: “Macedonians are Slavs”. According to Mauro Orbini and all the others he quotes, on the territory of Macedonia, Macedonians are Slavs and the Slavs are Macedonians, this means that Orbini leaves a mark of unity between the Macedonians and Slavs.
In that book, Mr.Visinski says, only few pages speak about Macedonia, and there, among the other, the Charter of Alexander the Macedonian is stated as well. And since Orbini leaves a mark of unity between the Macedonians and Slavs, that means that this Charter is a pledge of Alexander the Macedonian to his own people who participated in the wars. But, Orbini quotes other authors as well, who indicate the peculiarity of Macedonian language compared to the Greek. Exactly here he expresses his own opinion that Macedonians and Greeks were never close, nor were they one nation, but they were two different nations united to conquer the world under the great general.
Mr.Visinski adds that, the author Jeremiah Ruso in the Chronicles of the Moscowians clearly says that the Russians, meaning Moscowians had the same language like the ancient Macedonians. This means that other authors spoke about similarities between ancient Macedonian and Slavic language as well. This approves the theory that on these Macedonian spaces and wider, the Slaves didn’t come from anywhere, but they had always been here, they just used different names and that in that „Slavic sea“ of VI and VII century, according to some sources, from the Karpaties the last waves of Slavs in Macedonia came and united with natives.
In the Vatican library, said Visinski, there are books which are not registered and are not available for research. Among them is the book “Slavic titles of geographical names in Italy” by Czech historian from the XIX century.
THE CHARTER OF ALEXANDER THE MACEDONIAN
“WE, ALEXANDER, son of Phillip, King of Macedonia, Prince of the Monarchy, appointed as a creator of Greek empire, from Nataban announced as the child of the great Zeus, ruler of the Augusts, and of Bramans and of Arbonites, from sunrise to sunset, from south up until north, to the noble nation of Slavs we wish kindness, peace and health. We and our followers who will succeed us in ruling the world, because you have been consistent in faith, valiant in fights and our leaders and heroic fighters, we apportion you and freely donate you forever this whole part of the land, to North up until southern borders with Italy; and with such right, which nobody but you, must not stay long here; nor inhabit, nor live there. If, however, anyone stays longer here, may he become your slave, and his children, slaves to your children.
This Privilege is given in the new city of Alexandria, whom we created by the great Nile river, in the twelfth year of our ruling, under protection of the great god Zeus and Mars, Pluto and goddess Athens. Witnesses to this act are the noble Athleta, our treasurer, together with the other eleven princes whom we have appointed, after our death, as our general successors, considering the fact that we haven’t got any children.”
TO THE SLAVS
The Charter is re-published in 1601 the Macedonians are not Greeks, said Alexander the Macedonian
Since distant past I was interested in the whole book “The Kingdom of the Slavs” by Mauro Orbini. It is already forgotten book, published in parts, and yet there are certain truths in it which should be published again, no matter what capacity they contain.
Mauro Orbini is an interesting medieval person who lived on the passage between the XVI and XVII century. He is a famous writer of travelogues, a historian, but some consider him as the father of the panslavism. He was born in Dubrovnik, lived and worked in Italy. In his historical research he was bold, he based on facts and the conclusions he was bringing, were in service to the slavinism. He penetrated deeply into the history of the Slavs, of course as much as his time made it possible. In some places he has got some unclear features, and he couldn’t see through many things. However, I am not saying all this in order to judge as some historian , but to bring out just few pages of this remarkable writing named “The Kingdom of the Slavs”. That book is very rear and came into my hands in order for me to see it and copy it in the Vatican library, in the fall 1990. Orbini’s book has got over five hundred pages in a large format. It was published in 1601 in Pezaro. In it he gives a wide view upon the development of the Slavic nations, with a special part about Southern Slavs.
In the book “The Kingdom of the Slavs” I was especially drawn by one part I want to quote, and I leave the impression to the reader. That part arises a deliberation about something which was disturbing the spirits four hundred years ago, and that restlessness exists today as well, when certain circles from abroad are trying to spread untruths that, for example, the ancient Macedonians were Greeks, etc.
ALEXANDER THE MACEDONIAN AND THE SLAVS
The part of the book refers to Alexander the Macedonian and the Slavs. Yes, the Slavs, too. Truly, Orbini as an author, is not alone in that way, but it will be seen that he is original. When we are on this subject, our historians strictly expostulate against such comparison, more than their colleagues around the world and therefore, everyone who initiates these matters is either naive, or a romantic or a mystifier. But, let us leave that. I don’t want to prove anything here, because I haven’t got such an ambition, but I want to announce integrally to our public The Privilege Alexander the Macedonian gave to the Slavs, as a gratitude for their participation in his wars and conquests.
Mauro Orbini says that this Charter was found in Constantinople. In order to confirm the writing in the Charter, he uses other sources as well, and among the other, he says that the Macedonians were not Greeks, that those were two neighboring nations, that the Macedonians conquered the Greeks, and that even though they participated together in all the conquests, they spoke different languages. The Charter, however unbelievable it may seem, is written in a high style and it is good the Charter to be published into Macedonian language.
The book “The Kingdom of the Slavs” is written in older Italian language. For better comprehension of the authenticity of the text, I asked Augusto Fonseca, an Italian poet and a lector in Italian language at the University “Saint Kiril and Metodi”, and an excellent connoisseur of the Macedonian language as well, to translate this part, from page 168 to 171 of the book.
In the book Orbini says:
“This Privilege, as we have said, was found after so many centuries in Constantinople by certain Julio Baldasar, a royal secretary. So, the name that is mentioned here - Slavs, Apian from Alexandria in “Iliricum”, calls these Agrians well-known and famous, and that is exactly what the word “Slavs” or “Slovenes” means.
The town of Agria situated in Dakia was founded (according to Bonfinio in the 1st book of 1 Dec.) by these Agrians who lived (according to Stephan the Byzantine) in the areas between the mountains Emos and Rodopies, near Macedonia. Macedonia however, was continually colonized by the Slavic nation and new-comers from Tyre, even though some thought that the Macedonians belonged to the society of the Greeks. To oppose them, I bring the opinion of Stephan the Byzantine about Alexander the Macedonian, who very clearly differs the language of the Macedonians from the language of the Greeks.
From this it can be clearly seen that Macedonian speech couldn’t be understood by all participants of Alexander’s army, because a great part of it consisted of Greeks. And truly, when Alexander told to Philota, the son of Parmenion, who wanted to expound his personal matter to the crowds: “The Macedonians oh, Philota, will condemn you; therefore I ask you, will you address them on your maternal language”, and Philota refused to do so, because he would not be understood by all. Then Alexander stated that Philota hated his maternal language.
MACEDONIANS ARE NOT GREEKS
So, if Macedonians were Greeks, why would Philota refuse to speak Greek in front of the Greeks? And even more, having in mind that he did not have more appropriate language than the Greek, supposedly if Macedonians were Greeks. Because (as Plinius says it, book VII, chapter 57) the passive willingness of the people was the first reason for the usage of the Ionian literacy. So, the maternal language of the Macedonians, which differs from the one we think was the general language of the whole army of Alexander, clearly shows that the Macedonians do not belong to the Greeks; as it is known, out of the ancient unity of the language, the unity of the nationality is confirmed as well. According to it, when distinguishing the languages at Nembrot, none of the authors confirmed anything opposite; The Greeks through their language do not draw near to the Macedonians; and we have shown enough, based upon the mere difference between the languages, that the Macedonians are not Greeks; then based upon the words of Phillip of Bergamo, we must admit that the Macedonians from all times, up until nowadays have got a Slavic language. Well, what would you think about Tukidid, who by joining Byzantium and Pula, a large part of Trakia and Mezia, and the whole Iliricum, all of these countries calls Macedonia? It would be the same as if he had said: I reckon that Trakia, Mezia and Iliricum must not be separated from the Macedonians. Therefore, I don’t doubt that the Trakians, Mezians and Ilircs are bound together with Macedonians. A witness to that is the title of Alexander the Macedonian presenting him as the King of the Macedonians and Greeks. Much stronger witnesses are the basic differences in the customs and lifestyle between the Macedonians and Greeks allowing me to be easily convinced that there are different traditions and customs even among people of the same kindred. That is why, according to the telling of K. Kurtius, when Diosip of Athens had to fight chest to chest against Horata the Macedonian, there were some Greeks among Alexander’s soldiers who supported Diosip; but if Macedonians had been Greeks, why didn’t the Greeks give the same treatment to Horata the Macedonian, as they supported Diosip only because he was a Greek? Therefore, if sometimes mostly among the Barbarians, there is a saying that Alexander was Greek, it’s because they were most familiar with the Greeks, because of their past wars against the nations of East; therefore they considered all nations on West to be Greeks; something similar is happening nowadays, when Greeks together with Turks and all other nations from East consider all catholic nations to be Franks.
Jeremiah Ruso in “The Chronicles of Moscovia” clearly states that the Russians, meaning the Moscowians had the same language as the ancient Macedonians; and King Phillip, the father of Alexander the Macedonian was born among them, who (as Plutarch in “The life of Alexander”, Yustin in VIIIth book and Sabelik in the III book of “Eneida”, and others tell us) submitted the strongest towns in Greece under his laws, enslaved Greece (who until then had freedom) and through his glorious deeds reached the greatness of the most famous kings. His son Alexander the Macedonian expanded through the boundaries of the earth (according to the First book of Macabians, chapter 1), took the treasures of many people, even making the earth numb. After Alexander’s death, Macedonians governed all nations in the world as well as the Egyptians for 276 years” says Mauro Orbini.
From the book “The Kingdom of the Slavs” by Mauro Orbini, published in 1601, in Pezaro, page 168 - 171.
MACEDONIANS WERE HERE FROM ALL TIMES
Talking to Mr.Boris Visinski, he explained to us how he had managed to fid and copy the book “The Kingdom of the Slavs” by the Italian historian Mauro Orbini.
In the ‘80ties, when I was searching information about the Bogomils through some libraries, said Mr.Visinski, one Italian friend of mine - a historian, pointed out to me several books about those heretical movements in the Middle Age.
And since he had known I was a Macedonian, he asked me if I had read Mauro Orbini’s book - “The Kingdom of the Slavs”. I told him I had heard of only one part of that book concerning Serbia being published in Belgrade. And since this book spoke of almost all Slavic nations, he suggested that I look for the original version of it.
Through the help of some friends, catholic majesties, I managed to find this book in the Vatican library and copy it. The first thing I noticed in this book was the alphabet registry. In it, under the letter “M”, the first direction states: “Macedonians are Slavs”. According to Mauro Orbini and all the others he quotes, on the territory of Macedonia, Macedonians are Slavs and the Slavs are Macedonians, this means that Orbini leaves a mark of unity between the Macedonians and Slavs.
In that book, Mr.Visinski says, only few pages speak about Macedonia, and there, among the other, the Charter of Alexander the Macedonian is stated as well. And since Orbini leaves a mark of unity between the Macedonians and Slavs, that means that this Charter is a pledge of Alexander the Macedonian to his own people who participated in the wars. But, Orbini quotes other authors as well, who indicate the peculiarity of Macedonian language compared to the Greek. Exactly here he expresses his own opinion that Macedonians and Greeks were never close, nor were they one nation, but they were two different nations united to conquer the world under the great general.
Mr.Visinski adds that, the author Jeremiah Ruso in the Chronicles of the Moscowians clearly says that the Russians, meaning Moscowians had the same language like the ancient Macedonians. This means that other authors spoke about similarities between ancient Macedonian and Slavic language as well. This approves the theory that on these Macedonian spaces and wider, the Slaves didn’t come from anywhere, but they had always been here, they just used different names and that in that „Slavic sea“ of VI and VII century, according to some sources, from the Karpaties the last waves of Slavs in Macedonia came and united with natives.
In the Vatican library, said Visinski, there are books which are not registered and are not available for research. Among them is the book “Slavic titles of geographical names in Italy” by Czech historian from the XIX century.
THE CHARTER OF ALEXANDER THE MACEDONIAN
“WE, ALEXANDER, son of Phillip, King of Macedonia, Prince of the Monarchy, appointed as a creator of Greek empire, from Nataban announced as the child of the great Zeus, ruler of the Augusts, and of Bramans and of Arbonites, from sunrise to sunset, from south up until north, to the noble nation of Slavs we wish kindness, peace and health. We and our followers who will succeed us in ruling the world, because you have been consistent in faith, valiant in fights and our leaders and heroic fighters, we apportion you and freely donate you forever this whole part of the land, to North up until southern borders with Italy; and with such right, which nobody but you, must not stay long here; nor inhabit, nor live there. If, however, anyone stays longer here, may he become your slave, and his children, slaves to your children.
This Privilege is given in the new city of Alexandria, whom we created by the great Nile river, in the twelfth year of our ruling, under protection of the great god Zeus and Mars, Pluto and goddess Athens. Witnesses to this act are the noble Athleta, our treasurer, together with the other eleven princes whom we have appointed, after our death, as our general successors, considering the fact that we haven’t got any children.”
hippokrates
γαμάω και
Du hast die Quelle der "antiki makedontsi" vergessen. 
The Association of Ancient Macedonians - Bogdanci
Hippokrates
The Association of Ancient Macedonians - Bogdanci
Hippokrates
Monkeydonian
Gesperrt
Du hast die Quelle der "antiki makedontsi" vergessen.
The Association of Ancient Macedonians - Bogdanci
Hippokrates
Was speilt das für eine Rolle?
Das Buch von M.Orbini ist frei erhältlich, bzw. eine Abschrift davon!
Ich mache das jetzt nach deinem beispiel, ich gebe auch keine Quellen mehr an, wieso sollte ich mich verpflichtet fühlen meine Beiträge mit Quellen zu verweisen, wenn du nicht mal auf Anfragen Quellen vorlegen kannst - weil deine "Theorien" schlicht und einfach erlogen und zusammengereimt sind!
Folgendes Thema als Beispiel, in dem du mehrmals auf Quellen zu deinen peinlichen Behauptungen gefragt wurdest, was daraus wurde kann jeder selbst nachsehen
http://www.balkanforum.info/f9/herman-van-rompuy-ueber-balkan-186870/index2.html#post2120702
Monkeydonian
Gesperrt
Ich hätte auch was aus russische Quellen, die ja in meinem oberen Text erwähnt wurden:
Betreffend diesen Satz von w.o.
"...the author Jeremiah Ruso in the Chronicles of the Moscowians clearly says that the Russians, meaning Moscowians had the same language like the ancient Macedonians"
Íîâûå ìàòåð³àëû äëÿ äðåâíѣøåé ... - Google Êíèãè
Jetzt musst halt nur noch russisch können!
Betreffend diesen Satz von w.o.
"...the author Jeremiah Ruso in the Chronicles of the Moscowians clearly says that the Russians, meaning Moscowians had the same language like the ancient Macedonians"
Íîâûå ìàòåð³àëû äëÿ äðåâíѣøåé ... - Google Êíèãè
Jetzt musst halt nur noch russisch können!
specialForces
смрт ком
Лудиот;2132948 schrieb:
Wo gibts das Buch von Orbini? Auch als E-Book?
specialForces
смрт ком
Ich hab auch was bez. Alexander gefunden:
Der Kroate Ivan Gundulić (1589-1638):
Od Lesandra Srbljanina od vseh cara, cara slavna, Aleksandro to svidoci kralj veliki svega svita...
der Italiener Franciscus Maria Appendini (1768-1791):
Idcirco in hac lingua adhuc canitur quidquid antiquitus de Alexandro Serblo (Macedonico) imperatorum omnium imperatore gloriosissimo patriis canticis traditum fuit...
Der Kroate Ivan Gundulić (1589-1638):
Od Lesandra Srbljanina od vseh cara, cara slavna, Aleksandro to svidoci kralj veliki svega svita...
der Italiener Franciscus Maria Appendini (1768-1791):
Idcirco in hac lingua adhuc canitur quidquid antiquitus de Alexandro Serblo (Macedonico) imperatorum omnium imperatore gloriosissimo patriis canticis traditum fuit...
