[Türk Silahlı Kuvvetleri] - Turkish Armed Forces - Türkische Streitkräfte

[Ts61]

was mich immer gewundert hat. wieso haben die russen kein techtransfer angeboten? sie wussten doch das die chinesen dies mit der s-300 kopie tun werden. so hätten man china doch das wasser abgraben können und ein bein in der türkischen tür gehabt. die technologie würde so oder so in die hände der türken fallen. warum hat russland diese chance verstreichen lassen und den platz den chinesen überlassen?

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Vielleicht weil die Kopie um einiges schlechter als das Original ist und die Russen ihre Geheimnisse nicht mit jedem teilen wollen? Anders kann ich es mir nicht erklären.

Danke

 

[Vollkornbrot]

Warum überhaupt von China? Yunanlilarin bile Patriotlari var bize niye satmiyorlar yavsaklar.

 

[Cebrail]

Vielleicht weil die Kopie um einiges schlechter als das Original ist und die Russen ihre Geheimnisse nicht mit jedem teilen wollen? Anders kann ich es mir nicht erklären.

Danke

könnte sein.

andererseits denke ich (wiki)

[h=1]HQ-9[/h] From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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HQ-9
Type	Surface-to-air missile
Place of origin	People's Republic of China
Service history
In service	1997 [SUP][1][/SUP]
Used by	People's Liberation Army People's Liberation Army Navy
Production history
Manufacturer	CPMIEC
Produced	1980s [SUP][1][/SUP]
Specifications
Weight	1300 kg
Length	6.8 m
Warhead weight	180 kg
Engine	Two-stage solid propellant rocket
Operational range	200 km (slant range) [SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP]
Flight ceiling	30 km (98,425 ft) [SUP][1][/SUP]
Speed	Mach 4.2
Guidance system	Inertial guidance with mid-course update and terminal active radar homing
Launch platform	Taian TAS5380 8×8 transporter erector launcher (TEL) [SUP][3][/SUP] Type 052C destroyer

The HQ-9 (Chinese: 红旗; pinyin: hóng qí, "red flag" or "red banner") is China’s new generation medium- to long-range, active radar homing air defence missile.[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP]
The naval HQ-9 appears to be identical to the land-based variant. Its naval type HHQ-9 is equipped in the PLAN Type 052C Lanzhou class destroyer in VLS launch tubes.[SUP][6][/SUP]
The land-based HQ-9 system has an anti-radiation variant, known as the FT-2000 for export. The export designation for air defense version is FD-2000 (with FD stands for Fang Dun [防盾], meaning defensive shield), and its developer China National Precision Machinery Import and Export Corporation (CPMIEC) first made it public at the Africa Aerospace and Defence Exhibition held at Cape Town in March 2009. In September the HQ-9 submitted by CPMIEC won Turkey's T-LORAMIDS program to acquire 12 long range air defense systems.[SUP][7][/SUP]
[h=2]Contents[/h]

• 1 Design
  • 1.1 Missile
  • 1.2 Radars
    • 1.2.1 Fire control radar
      • 1.2.1.1 HT-233 Radar
    • 1.2.2 Search radars
      • 1.2.2.1 Type 305B radar
      • 1.2.2.2 Type 120 radar
      • 1.2.2.3 Type 305A radar
      • 1.2.2.4 YLC-20 passive sensor
      • 1.2.2.5 DWL002 passive sensor
• 2 Variants
• 3 See also
• 4 References
• 5 External links

[h=2]Design[/h] The most basic formation of a HQ-9 batteries consisted of one Type 305B search radar, one tracking radar, one 200kW Diesel generator truck, and eight Transporter erector launchers (TELs) each with 8 missiles, totaling 32 rounds ready to fire. These equipments are usually mounted on Tai'an trucks. This basic formation can be expanded into more capable larger formation, with the addition of the following equipment: one TWS-312 command post, one site survey vehicle based on Chinese Humvee, one main power grid converter, additional transporter / loader vehicles with each vehicle housing four missile TELs based on Tai'an TAS5380, one Type 120 low altitude search radar, one Type 305A AESA search radar for full anti ballistic missile capability, and a passive radar against stealth targets.
[h=3]Missile[/h] Similar to the Russian S-300V, the HQ-9 is a two-stage missile. The first stage has a diameter of 700 mm and the 2nd stage 560 mm, with a total mass of almost 2 tons and a length of 6.8m. The missile is armed with a 180 kg warhead, has a maximum speed of Mach 4.2.[SUP][5][/SUP] and has a maximum range of 200 km.[SUP][2][/SUP] The thrust vector control (TVC) of HQ-9 is the most obvious visual identification that distinguish it from S300V: TVC of HQ-9 is exposed and thus can be observed from the side, while TVC of S300V is not exposed. The HQ-9's guidance system is composed of inertial guidance plus mid-course uplink and active radar terminal guidance systems.
The system first used a missile in a box-like launcher canted at an angle, just like the MIM-104 Patriot. However the missile was very large because of China's limited experience with solid-fuel rockets. Due to Russian assistance and technology transfers, the missile and launcher are in their present form, a transporter erector launcher with missiles inside a cylindrical container.[SUP][3][/SUP] The missile apparently has a limited anti ballistic missile capability.
[h=3]Radars[/h] To reduce the cost, the HQ-9 is designed to be flexible enough to employ a wide range of radars, both the search/surveillance/acquisition radar and the tracking/engagement/fire control radar (FCR).
[h=4]Fire control radar[/h] Many FCRs of other Chinese SAM can be used for HQ-9, such as FCR used in KS-1 SAM, SJ-212, itself an enlarged and improved version of the SJ-202 fire control radar (FCR) used in HQ-2J.[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP] H-200 & SJ-231 FCRs of latter models of KS-1 SAM are also compatible with HQ-9.
[h=5]HT-233 Radar[/h] To maximize the combat effectiveness of HQ-9, a dedicated FCR for HQ-9 was developed, and it is most commonly seen with HQ-9. Designated as HT-233, this radar is the most advanced FCRs HQ-9 could employ, and it has greater similarities to the MIM-104 Patriot's MPQ-53 than the S-300's 30N6 (Flap-Lid) series,[SUP][9][/SUP] working in the NATO G-band (4–6 GHz) also as a search and targeting radar. This could be due to an alleged transfer of Patriot technology to China.[SUP][10][/SUP] The radar can search a 120 degree arc in azimuth and 0-90 degrees in elevation out to 300 km, with a peak power output on 1MW (average 60 kW). The radar is credited as being able to track 100 targets and guides up to 6 missiles to 6 targets, or alternatively, to 3 targets with a pair of missile for each target.
HT-233 is the FCR used by HQ-9 that is closest to AN/MPQ-53: In comparison to earlier H-200 radar used by early models of KS-1 SAM which uses a simple horn instead of lens arrangement, HT-233 radar adopts lens arrangement of AN/MPQ-53. In comparison to SJ-231 radar used by the latest model of KS-1, HT-233 has a thousand more phase shifter on its antenna array, totaling four thousand, as opposed to the three thousand of SJ-231. In contrast, both AN/MPQ-53 & 30N6E radars have ten thousand phase shifters on their antenna arrays respectively. HT-233 radar is mounted on Tai'an TAS5501 10 x 10 high mobility cross country truck, and operates in C-band at 300MHz. When deployed as a search radar TH-233 is fielded at brigade level, while FCR radars deployed would be SJ-212, H-200 or SJ-231. [SUP][3][/SUP] HT-233 is credited with a detection range of 120 km,[SUP][11][/SUP] scanning 360 degrees in azimuth and 0-65 degrees in elevation. It can track 100 targets and designate 50 for engagements.
[h=4]Search radars[/h] Several search radars are discovered to be associated with HQ-9, including anti-ballistic radars and anti-stealth radars.
[h=5]Type 305B radar[/h] Type 305B (also known as LLQ-305B) radar is the standard search radar for HQ-9, and it is a development of YLC-2 Radar. This 3-D radar which has an antenna height of 3.5 meters, and employs sixty 350 mm waveguide feeds. It operates in the S-band at a wavelength of 11.67 cm.
[h=5]Type 120 radar[/h] Type 120 (also known as LLQ-120) radar is the low altitude search radar, it is a telescoping radar with an antenna height of 2.3 metres folded, and 7 metres unfolded, using a feed network of sixteen 230mm wave guides. It rotates at a maximum of ten revolutions per minute, and operates in the L-band at a wavelength of 23.75 cm.
[h=5]Type 305A radar[/h] Type 305A (also known as LLQ-305A) radar is another search radar for HQ-9 system. This AESA radar is designed maximize the anti-ballistic capability of HQ-9, and it resembles Thales Ground Master 400 AESA radar. Very little info is released about this radar other than it can also act as FCR.
[h=5]YLC-20 passive sensor[/h] Although Type 305 radars are effective against stealthy targets such as F-22 or F-35, full stealth target such as B-2 is difficult to detect. YLC-20 passive radar was conceptually based on KRTP-91 Tamara passive sensor, incorporating experience obtained from documentation acquired during the abortive attempt to procure six Czech VERA passive sensors. YLC-20 passive radar was first revealed in 2006.
[h=5]DWL002 passive sensor[/h] DWL002 passive radar is the development of earlier YLC-20, incorporating Kolchuga passive sensor, four of which were sold to China.[SUP][12][/SUP] Like its predecessor YLC-20, DWL002 is also developed by China Electronics Technology Corp. (CETC).
[h=2]Variants[/h]

• FT-2000 - Anti radiation version that was the first model of HQ-9 family being completed.
• HQ-9 - TVM version SAM.
• HHQ-9 — Naval version.[SUP][13][/SUP]
• HQ-9A — Upgraded version, first tested in 1999 and service entry in 2001.[SUP][13][/SUP] Chinese sources claim that the HQ-9 family of systems employ much newer computing technology than imported Russian S-300PMU/PMU1/PMU2 systems, because HQ-9 is developed more than a decade later, thus allowing it to incorporate advancement in microelectronics. Due to the superior computing capability for signal processing, data processing and guidance support, this missile can have an optional semi-active radar homing (SARH) mode, because more info can be processed on board the missile itself.
• HHQ-9A — Ship-borne naval version of HQ-9A. Eight 6-cell vertical launch silos, of cylindrical shape and using "cold launch" method, mounted on the Type 052C destroyer (48 missiles in total).[SUP][14][/SUP]
• FD-2000 - First revealed in the 8th Zhuhai Airshow, the export version of HQ-9, providing extra anti-stealth capability by incorporating YLC-20 passive sensor as an option.[SUP][15][/SUP]
• HQ-9B — reportedly tested in February 2006.[SUP][13][/SUP] According to Jane's Information Group, this missile has a dual seeker that incorporates both SARH & imaging IR mode [SUP][16][/SUP]
• HQ-9C - Currently under development, incorporating active radar homing mode.

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Warum überhaupt von China? Yunanlilarin bile Patriotlari var bize niye satmiyorlar yavsaklar.

du verarscht uns jetzt doch, oder? hahahahaha......

das wollten sie doch auch tun. aber für ein hohen preis und ohne techtransfer.

 

[Vollkornbrot]

du verarscht uns jetzt doch, oder? hahahahaha......

das wollten sie doch auch tun. aber für ein hohen preis und ohne techtransfer.

Wirklich das wusste ich nicht aber wenn schon Länder wie Griechenland S-300 und Patriots besitzen und die Türkei nicht ist das schon merkwürdig.

 

[Cebrail]

@vollkornbrot

das kannst du aber laut sagen! wir haben der griechischen luftverteidigung nichts adäquates entgegenzusetzen. nichts! bis heute....hihihihihi

 

[Ts61]

Wirklich das wusste ich nicht aber wenn schon Länder wie Griechenland S-300 und Patriots besitzen und die Türkei nicht ist das schon merkwürdig.

Merkwürdig finde ich es nicht immerhin haben die Griechen und Russen gewisse Beziehungen.

 

[Vollkornbrot]

Merkwürdig finde ich es nicht immerhin haben die Griechen und Russen gewisse Beziehungen.

Und wir mit der USA da hätte man sich ja mal wenigsten Patriots Kaufen können um etwas Erfahrung zu sammeln.

 

[Cebrail]

es ist unsere mentalität! wir denken alleine die schlagkraft ist entscheidend und bräuchten keine verteidigung.

 

[Ts61]

Und wir mit der USA da hätte man sich ja mal wenigsten Patriots Kaufen können um etwas Erfahrung zu sammeln.

Ich denke die TSK wird schon wissen was sie tut auch wenn du es nicht glauben magst.

 

[Harput]

Ich bin so froh, dass sie sich für die chinesische Variante entschieden haben. Übrigens: das Teil kann man nur unzureichend in das Nato-System der Türkei integrieren, das habe ich mal gelesen vor einigen Wochen.

Das heißt, dass die Regierung gar nicht in erster Linie auf den militärischen Aspekt dieser Waffen aus ist. Man hat heute schlicht und ergreifend eine technologische Basis erkauft - und genau deshalb bin ich absolut zufrieden.

Denkt mal weiter, bitte. Das Know-how wird in der Türkei weiterentwickelt werden und dieses Wissen wird in unzählige militärische Projekte einfließen.

Ich find's absolut klug von Erdogan. Lieber das, als auf Ewigkeiten der Kunde der Amis zu bleiben.