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Luftkrieg: Die serbische/ jugoslawische Luftverteidigung

General a.D. der Bundeswehr Klaus Naumann (er war während des Krieges in den Ruhestand getreten) erklärte dazu:
"Die Wahrheit wird irgendwo dazwischen liegen. Es werden erheblich weniger als 110 sein, aber deutlich mehr als 13..." (Nachzulesen in Europäische Sicherheit, Heft 11/99).

US News and World Report zu Folge seien dann nur 26 Kampfpanzer, 12 Schützenpanzer und 8 Geschützbatterien ausgeschaltet worden. Inzwischen schrieb Newsweek (15.05.2000), das die NATO lediglich 14 Panzer, 18 Truppentransporter und Artilleriegeschütze getroffen hat (Zitat Peter Scholl Latour aus der Doku).

Wie war das noch im November 1999 "deutlich mehr als 13?!"
 
Ich kann aus erster Quelle sagen das man den britischen Jets nchts anhaben konnte! Die standen in Seelenruhe in der Luft und konnten ihre Ziele bombardieren
 
die nato wollte eigentlich nie bombardieren, geschweige denn mit bodentruppen einmarschieren, sie dachten serbien gibt klein bei......schon die drohkulisse war ja lächerlich 50 tausend nato-soldaten gegen fast eine mio kriegserprobte serben.:rolleyes:



wären sie rücksichtslos auf serbien wie auf irak losgegangen, wäre eure armee in wenigen tagen nur noch altmetall.:rolleyes:
 
GOJIM schrieb:
die nato wollte eigentlich nie bombardieren, geschweige denn mit bodentruppen einmarschieren, sie dachten serbien gibt klein bei......schon die drohkulisse war ja lächerlich 50 tausend nato-soldaten gegen fast eine mio kriegserprobte serben.:rolleyes:



wären sie rücksichtslos auf serbien wie auf irak losgegangen, wäre eure armee in wenigen tagen nur noch altmetall.:rolleyes:
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....

Genau, sie dachten...

Und wie meinst du rücksichtslos? Mit der Bombardierung von Krankenhäusern, Brücken (viele die nicht mal eine Tragkraft von 5t hatten), Zügen, Schulen, Chemiefabriken (bei der es fast in 2 Fällen zur Katastrophe kam), Umspannanlagen (sodass auch viele Zivilisten keinen Strom mehr hatten, Ölraffinerien usw.

Wenn die NATO nicht weiter weiss, geht man halt auf die zivilen Einrichtungen und Infrastruktur, ist ja klar...
Ich mein das Bombardieren von Attrappen ist ja auch nicht das Wahre.

PS: Die Intervention war ohne UN Mandat!
 
Cobra1 schrieb:
Ich kann aus erster Quelle sagen das man den britischen Jets nchts anhaben konnte! Die standen in Seelenruhe in der Luft und konnten ihre Ziele bombardieren
Zum Vergrößern anklicken....

Lies dir mal folgendes durch...

NATO aircraft losses - summary

These are official figures released by Yugoslav command regarding NATO losses. RV & PVO information was released by Yugoslav command (by General Dragoljub Ojdanic, Chief of General Staff of FRY Army) on June 15, 1999, so it's the most recent information available. But again these numbers include only RV & PVO kills (Air Force and Air Defenses). Information about FRY Navy kills was released by FRY Navy Commander, Milan Zec, on 06-10-99. And the information about NATO aircraft downed by the Third Army was released by the Third Army Commander, General Nebojsa Pavkovic, on 06-12-99. Information about NATO aircraft downed by the 2nd Army was released by Major General Spasoje Smiljanic in his interview to Politika newspaper at the end of April. Information regarding aircraft shot down by the 1st Army was provided by General Ninoslav Krstic in his interview for the "Vojska" magazine on May 24, 1999.
• Total RV i PVO & other air defenses: 61 planes, 7 helicopters, 30 UAVs and 238 cruise missiles
o 3rd Army: 34 planes, 5 helicopters, 25 UAVs and 52 cruise missiles
o Navy: 3 planes, 3 UAVs and over 5 cruise missiles
o 2nd Army: 24 planes, 2 helicopters, 2 UAVs, 30 cruise missiles
o 1st Army: 6 planes, 129 cruise missiles
Total: 61 aircraft, 7 helicopters, 30 UAVs and over 238 cruise missiles. These numbers include only those NATO aircraft that crashed in Yugoslavia

March 26 By 17:00 03.26.99 at least one USAF F-16C fighter was lost in air-to-air combat 7km south of Pancevo (map). Serbs said the aircraft was downed by a MiG-29. Four more F-16s were lost due to ground fire in the third wave of attacks. Russian GRU (Main Intelligence Directorate - military intel. service) confirmed that four USAF F-16s were shot down by SAMs and AAAs.
F-16 fighter aircraft experienced significant technical difficulties in 1998-1999 and about 400 such aircraft were grounded by the USAF for safety reasons. It should be fully expected that the F-16s deployed to Italy may develop considerable technical problems during intensive operations against Yugoslavia. This problem will be also augmented by the acute shortage of qualified technical personnel already experienced even before the war. More information here.
April 4 On 04-04-99 a "USAF 31st FW F-16C made emergency diversion to Sarajevo Airport Bosnia-Herzegovina." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 92)
April 7 On 04-07-99 one Belgian F-16B two-seat fighter/bomber aircraft (possibly of Belgian 349 Squadron assigned to NATO) was shot down near Novi Sad. Two pilots ejected and were captured: a 42-year-old male pilot and a 28-year-old female co-pilot. The aircraft was shot down by Aleksandar Sunjka using a 20mm anti-aircraft gun. For more info about Belgian F-16s click here.
May 2 According to a statement made by NATO spokesman Jamie Shea on 05-02-99, one American F-16 fighter aircraft made an emergency landing at Sarajevo airport. He did not specify the exact date of the incident. So far, it has only been known that two damaged NATO aircraft landed at Sarajevo: the USAF F-15 on March 25th and a British Harrier on April 19th.
April 19 On 04-19-99 a Danish AF F-16 "made emergency diversion to Sarajevo Airport, Bosnia-Herzegovina, due to a serious engine problem in the early hours of the morning while flying a combat air patrol mission to protect NATO SFOR troops in Bosnia." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)
May 2 A USAF F-16CG fighter aircraft (tail number AV555FS, serial number 88-0550) crashed 18km east of the town of Kozluk, Yugoslavia (according to official NATO report, however, 20km southeast of Sabac according to Yugoslavian reports, map) at 02:20 on 05-02-99. The pilot ejected and NATO reported that he was picked up by NATO rescue forces. Photo from The Times of London here. US Department of Defense news report here. Associated Press report here. Yugoslav sources reported that four NATO rescue helicopters were in the area and exchanged fire with Serbian police. One rescue helicopter was reported down and one more heavily damaged by AAA fire. Some more info here. Take a look at this F-16 (according to USAF) when it was still in one piece. There was an obvious disagreement between the USAF and NATO reports regarding a downing of an F-16 on 05-02-99: USAF and DoD reports identified the lost aircraft as F-16CG, while NATO reports identified the aircraft as F-16CJ. Both models were used extensively during the operation Allied Force. This discrepancy may indicate that that more than one F-16 might have been lost on that date. Adding further confusion, USAF and DoD reports showed that the aircraft crashed near the town of Metic, while official NATO statements place the crash site 18km east of the town of Kozluk, which is some distance away from Metic. Serbian military found and photographed the remains of the F-16CG, tail number AV555FS, near the village of Nakucani, which is quite some distance away from Metic. A report by Associated Press, insists that the aircraft shot down on 05-02-99 was an F-16CJ. The report describes the details of awards given out to several US pilots in connection with the operation Allied Force. Here is an interesting quote from this report: "One of the other Silver Star recipients also was involved in the rescue of a downed U.S. pilot, though in much different circumstances. Kavlick, 32, from Festus, Mo., was flying lead in a group of F-16CJs on a mission to destroy Serb SA-3 and SA-6 surface-to-air missile batteries near the city of Novi Sad on May 2 when his wingman was struck by an SA-3 missile, causing engine failure and forcing the pilot to eject." As you can see, again there is a discrepancy in the type of aircraft shot down. At least now we know that the F-16, whatever model, was brought down by an SA-3 missile and not a technical malfunction as was originally stated by NATO officials.
May 20 An F-16 jet fighter crashed in the village of Gradiste, Croatia 17km southwest of Vinkovci on 05-20-99 at 03:35 local time (map). The incident was observed by a number of local residents, who were woken up by a loud explosion and observed a fireball in the sky and a parachute. The crash site is heavily patrolled by police and several small clashes took place between the police and curious villagers.
May 28 An American F-16 fighter/bomber was shot down over Kosovo on 05-28-99. The aircraft crashed in central Macedonia at 13:45 local time. The pilot of the aircraft was rushed by a rescue helicopter to a hospital in Skopje. The pilot had serious injuries to his head and extremities. Two more wounded American pilots are recovering in the Skopje hospital. An amateur photographer managed to get a shot of the crash site before the remains of the F-16 were retrieved by NATO troops. This incident was reported by Macedonian "Evening News" newspaper. ITAR-TASS report here (in Russian).
July 30, 2000 According to a USAF source, an F-16 fighter was ditched in the Adriatic during the operation "Allied Force." The pilot was rescued. No further information is available. Please e-mail me if you know something about this incident.

Im Aviation Museum in Belgrad stehen auch Teile von 1 abgeschossenen Harrier mit einem Text dazu wo, wie und wieviele sie fielen.
Ohne die Drohnen der RAF zu erwähnen...
 
@Cobra1

March 25 One heavily-damaged USAF F-15 landed at Sarajevo airport on 03-25-99 escorted by another F-15. Photo of a damaged F-15 over Sarajevo from Vojska newspaper. The incident was confirmed by LtCdr Sheena Thomson of SFOR during a joint NATO-SFOR press conference on 03-25-99. You can read the complete transcript of the press conference here.

March 26 One USAF F-15E ground attack/fighter aircraft was downed on 03-26-99 at 17:20 in the village of Donja Trnova, 15km southwest of Bijeljina, Republic of Srpska. Serbs claimed the plane was shot down by a MiG-29 fighter. BBC World News reported the loss on March 27, 1999. More info and a photo here.
March 26 On 03-26-99 USAF F-15E strike fighter of the 48th FW "reported to have run off the runway and been badly damaged while making an emergency landing at Istrana air base, Italy." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 92)
April 4 On April 4, exactly at 3:27AM one, possibly two USAF F-15 fighter jets were shot down, according to a first-hand report from Sgt. 'Sasa', who participated in the shoot-down. His story: At that time, three combat aircraft were detected flying over their position on Mtn. Ljubic (near Cacak, map). Two were flying very close to each other, while the third was relatively away. Their unit was armed with S-125 Neva SAMs. The order came to launch when the first aircraft was 15km away from their position. At exactly 19km away, it was hit with the first SAM, exploding in the air. Pilot did not eject. The pilot of the other jet ejected at the moment when the first aircraft was hit. They could clearly see the booster blast going vertical for a few moments, and several seconds later both aircraft disappeared from their radar screen. After that shooting, third aircraft, which was always near by, came down and launched its weapons. The Low Blow radar for S-125 was hit (located some 50m away from the launcher), during which Sgt. "Sasa" was seriously wounded while the others sustained only minor injuries. He came out of hospital after the end of the war. They could not confirm the aircraft type while their command says the aircraft were American, most probably F-15s.
April 25 On 04-25-99 a USAF F-15 fighter jet "made emergency landing at Sarajevo Airport, escorted by another F-15, due to a faulty hydraulic pump." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)
June 13 One damaged USAF F-15 fighter jet arrived at Aviano airbase, Italy on 06-13-99 at about 20:00 local time. Following landing the aircraft was surrounded by ambulances and fire trucks. Stratfor report here. Eyewitness report here.

March 26 By 17:00 03.26.99 two F/A-18s were lost 11km south of Ruma (map). Both crews are dead. Several additional Canadian F/A-18s have been dispatched to Italy on 03-30-99.
March 26 At least one German "Tornado IDS" ground attack aircraft was lost sometime between 22:00 03.24.99 and 17:00 03.26.99 (but most likely in the first wave of attacks). This loss was confirmed by Russian military intelligence and Serbs said that they have found the aircraft's crash site. The "Tornado" was shot down 12km south of Pancevo (map) and was completely destroyed. Crew of two is dead. The chairman of NATO's military committee, Gen. Klaus Naumann denied this report.
March 27 Another German "Tornado" was shot down on 03-29-99, as reported by Yugoslav news agency Tanjug. The pilots are said to have ejected. This report may be related to the incident when a German Tornado attack aircraft was shot down and crashed on 03-27-99 around 01:00 in the vicinity of the village Konjevici (Mt. Maljen), near Cacak. The crew of the Tornado ejected and was captured by Serb forces. A detailed account of the incident was published in Vojska magazine (issue 349, 04-04-99, p. 6). You can read the article here (in Serbian).
April 15 One NATO Tornado ground attack aircraft was shot down over Podgorica in the evening hours of 04-15-99. The plane crashed into the Skadarsko lake (map). The plane was shot down by Lt. Zdravko Bankovic using an L70 Bofors anti-aircraft gun.
May 26 A NATO Tornado bomber aircraft was shot down on 05-26-99 at 01:35 over Pozarevac, east of Belgrade (map). The aircraft's fuel tanks fell in the village of Aleksandrovac, and parts of the plane crashed in the municipality of Petrovac na Mlavi area. Pilot ejected. Tanjug report here. Video here. Video caps here. ITAR-TASS report here (in Russian). The aircraft was initially misidentified as Harrier. NATO aircraft over Yugoslavia often drop fuel tanks in an attempt to evade SAMs. Read US News & World Report article here, which describes some of the details of SAM-evasion from a NATO pilot's perspective.
April 15 A French Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft was shot down over Podgorica in the evening hours of 04-15-99. The aircraft crashed into the Rumjie hill (map). The plane was shot down by Lt. Zdravko Bankovic, who on the same day shot down a Tornado ground strike aircraft, using the same L70 Bofors. According to reports, the Mirage was only lightly damaged, but the pilot panicked and ejected. He was captured shortly after.
May 7 Another French Mirage 2000 was downed between 3:43 and 4:30 on May 7, 1999 by a Yugoslav SA-6. The aircraft crashed near Svrljig, about 30 km northeast of Nis (map). The SA-6 SAM system responsible for this kill fired a total of 4 missiles during the war with NATO and downed 2 NATO combat jets. More information here.

March 26 A group of eight British Harrier fighter jets came under heavy AAA fire while on a mission over Yugoslavia on 03-26-99. All of the Harriers are said to have returned to the Gioia del Colle base. However, several aircraft are believed to have been heavily damaged. According the British Ministry of Defence, the Harriers had to turn back to their base before completing their mission.
March 30 According to Yugoslav and Russian press, on 03-30-99 Yugoslav air defense forces shot down one British Harrier fighter aircraft (from those Harriers that operated from a base in Italy).
April 13 A British Harrier fighter aircraft was shot down over Zrenjanin in northern Serbia on 04-13-99 at 21:30. The aircraft was hit by AAA fire, dropped its fuel tanks and later crashed near Tuzla in Bosnia in the village of Osmaci (map). Remains of the fuel tanks of a British Harrier with bullet holes in them were shown on BK television in Yugoslavia.
April 17 Another British Harrier is believed to have been lost over Yugoslavia on 04-17-99. I am still verifying this information and will upload more data as it becomes available.
An audio recording (mp3 format, ~1.6Mb) of a conversation between a NATO combat aircraft pilot and an AWACS controller appeared on the Internet on 04-18-99. From the recording it is clear that a NATO aircraft came under fire and the pilot was forced to eject. Sources in Yugoslav media said that the destroyed aircraft was an F-16 fighter. An opposing theory suggests that the recording was made in 1994, when a British Sea Harrier was shot down over Bosnia. The Harriers were attacking armored vehicles near the town of Gorazde in Bosnia, approximately 50km SE of Sarajevo (map). In support of that theory, one can probably hear the name "Gorazde" on the recording around time index 3:14 from a female AWACS operator and again around time index 4:08. Also, the pilot of the damaged aircraft speaks with British accent. My initial assumption that the aircraft might have been an A-10A Thunderbolt was probably wrong. The aircraft in trouble is most likely a British Harrier.
May 1 According to an official NATO statement, one American USMC AV-8B Harrier crashed in the Adriatic on 05-1-99 while trying to land on a US carrier (USS Theodore Roosevelt) during a "training exercise", pilot was rescued. The US Sixth Fleet command said that the aircraft crashed after losing power 15km east of Brindisi, Italy (one of NATO's airbases is located at Brindisi, map). It is rather strange that a USMC Harrier would be landing on the Roosevelt and it is even more strange that the carrier would be floating around near the shore in shallow waters 15km east of a large ground airbase at Brindisi. What is also interesting is that the USS Nassau and USS Kearsarge amphibious assault ships deployed to the Adriatic, which carry USMC AV-8B Harriers, were nowhere near Brindisi at the time of the crash, but were just off Albanian shore. With this Harrier the number of lost NATO aircraft officially acknowledged by NATO comes to four as of 05-02-99, including the F-117A, an Apache helicopter, and the F-16CG. NATO also acknowledge a loss of four UAVs. Interestingly enough, at about the same time the Harrier was reported to have crashed during a "training exercise", an aircraft was shot down over Belgrade. The plane was hit at low altitude and the two pilots ejected. The incident was witnessed by hundreds of local residents, who observed the scene from their balconies.
May 29 A British Harrier fighter aircraft was shot down on 05-29-99 by a Serbian reservist Milan Galovic, a journalist from Politika magazine, using a Praga AAA. The incident occurred at 02:15 in the western Belgrade and the Harrier crashed near Karakaj in Bosnia after flying for over 100 km (map, map 2). The shoot down was confirmed by local radio amateurs, who were monitoring NATO radio frequencies. The aircraft exploded upon impact and the crash site was immediately surrounded by SFOR troops. A detailed account of the incident was published in the June 11, 1999, issue of REVIJA92 magazine.
March 27 Two F-117A LO light bombers were lost during the third wave of attacks. Pentagon acknowledged the loss of one F-117A, which was shot down by a Yugoslav SAM of undetermined type (possibly SA-6 or SA-3 with optical targeting) and crashed near the village Budjanovci. Pentagon acknowledged the loss of one F-117A (USAF 49th FW / 8th FS F-117A 82-0806/'HO'), which was shot down by a Yugoslav SAM of undetermined type (possibly SA-3 or SA-6) and crashed near the village Budjenovci. From the available footage of the F-117A wreckage it is possible to see bullet holes in the wing of the bomber, probably caused by a 23mm anti-aircraft gun. The damage to the rest of the aircraft seemed severe and looked like it indeed was caused by a SAM. Latest information suggests that the F-117 was shot down by an SA-3 surface-to-air missile with optical guidance. Pentagon officially confirmed that the F-117A was tracked by an enemy radar and that two SAMs were launched at the aircraft. In an interview with Associated Press on November 24, 1999, retired USAF Gen. Richard Hawley, formerly the head of Air Combat Command at Langley AFB in Virginia, talked about the loss of the F-117A 82-0806 during the Kosovo conflict. Gen. Hawley said that prior to the aircraft's departure from Aviano there "was a better that 50 / 50 chance it would be shot down. Those are unacceptable odds." After retiring from the USAF on June 11, 1999, Hawley blamed US field commander and other military planners for not correctly understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the aircraft. Hawley said "They put the 117 into a situation it wasn't designed to handle, so we lost the airplane, and I attribute it as much to a breakdown in our mission planning as to anything else... It encountered defenses we knew it was not designed to handle and it didn't need to get put into that situation." The USAF investigated the loss of the F-117A, however, keeps its findings classified.
The downing of the second F-117A was reported by the Russian National News Service in their March 27, 1999 special report. In regard to the first F-117A shot down, witnesses say that the aircraft was taken out by a SAM. From the available footage of the F-117A wreckage it is possible to see bullet holes in the wing of the bomber, probably caused by a 23mm anti-aircraft gun. The damage to the rest of the aircraft seemed severe and looked like it indeed was caused by a SAM. Pentagon officially confirmed that the F-117A was tracked by an enemy radar and that two SAMs were launched at the aircraft.
More information on the downing of the first F-117A here.
New photos of the shot down F-117A here. A video here (3,551Kb, mpeg)
I've seen the Le Parisien's photo of a downed "F-117", as was reported in their 03-29-99 issue. Evidently the newspaper was wrong and the photographed plane is not the Night Hawk but a MiG-29. Perhaps one of the two Fulcrums downed by NATO over Bosnia.
BBC mentioned a possibility of a second F-117 loss.
April 1 Radio-Zagreb, Yugoslav TV and other sources reported that a US F-117A stealth bomber had to make an emergency landing in Zagreb Airport. Apparently the aircraft sustained heavy damage from Yugoslav air defenses. I have strong reasons to believe that this report was not an April Fool's joke, despite of Croatian Radio 101 tying to present it that way (and being suspiciously persistent at that). Several articles appeared recently in in US press that speculate that a Czech-made Tamara anti-stealth radar may have been transferred to Yugoslavia and now is being used against American stealth aircraft.
April 6 According to the Serbian television report from 04-06-99, a NATO aircraft (presumably another F-117) was shot down early Tuesday morning (04-06-99) in the hilly area of Fruska Gora, 100 km (60 miles) northwest of Belgrade, after NATO aircraft bombed a refinery in the nearby city of Novi Sad. Related Reuters report here. This was one of two NATO aircraft shot down over Yugoslavia on 04-06-99. The second unidentified jet was downed near Novi Sad after it bombed a bridge over Danube. The pilot is believed to have ejected.
April 21 April 21 An F-117A 86-0837/'OT' of the USAF 422nd TES "suffered extensive damage in an unspecified landing accident, details unconfirmed, but reported as a Class A accident." (source: Air Forces Monthly, August 1999, p. 74) "Class A" accident normally means that the plane was totaled or came very near.
April 30 An F-117A of the 49th FW was damaged during strike mission by a nearby explosion of an SA-3 SAM, "...causing loss of part of the tail section, but the aircraft was able to return safely to Spangdahlem air base, Germany." (source: Air Force Monthly, July 1999, p. 75)
April 5, 2000 The ITAR-TASS news agency published a report based on the information provided by the GRU - Russian army's intelligence service. The report indicates that NATO lost three F-117A tactical stealth bombers and at least 40 other planes and over 1000 missiles.
July 30, 2000 According to a Pentagon source, one of the F-117As damaged during the operation "Allied Force" was scrapped. Available information suggests that this might have been the F-117A of the 49th FW that was damaged during strike mission by a nearby explosion of an SA-3 SAM on April 30. The missile strike caused loss of part of the tail section, but the aircraft was able to return safely to Spangdahlem air base, Germany. Alternatively, this could have been the F-117A 86-0837/'OT' of the USAF 422nd TES, which suffered extensive damage in an unspecified "Class A" landing accident. I am trying to establish the serial number of the F-117A recently written-off by the USAF. If you have any information regarding this, please e-mail me.

April 15 According to the radio Belgrade and radio "Voice of Russia" reports, an A-10 attack aircraft crashed in Skopje around 04-15-99 (map).
April 16 On 04-16-99 a USAF 52nd FW/ 81st FS A-10A 81-0984/'SP' "suffered oil pressure failure and diverted to Petrovac Airport, Skopje, Macedonia, for an emergency landing." (source: Air Forces Monthly, June 1999, p. 93)
 
@Dado-NS
Quellen findet man dank Propaganda wie es einem passt.

Ein Freund von mir der mittlerweile in D lebt war während der Zeit bei der Flugabwehr, daher sind das für mich persönlich die genauesten Infos die ich bekommen kann
 
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