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Torbeschen

Lingua Franca geht wieder auf Phryger zurück weil Franken ist ein Name für Phryger, oder serbisch Fruzani oder Fruska Gora in Serbien, Frankreich oder der Schweizer Franken alles gleich.


Meinst du das eigentlich die ganze Zeit ernst oder willst du die Leute hier nur auf den Arm nehmen?

Woher der Name Franken wirklich kommt weiß jeder der ein bisschen Allgemeinwissen hat.

Fruška Gora
Naziv nacionalnog parka potiče od naziva istoimene planine, a naziv Fruška gora nosi u svom pridevskom obliku etnik „Frug“ u značenju Franak (proto-Francuz) tj. Frigijac (iz Male Azije) sa kojim rečima je, uostalom, etimološki srodna, te na taj način ime ove planine čuva uspomenu na zajednice davno nestale iz ovih krajeva.[3]
https://sr.m.wikipedia.org/sr-el/Национални_парк_Фрушка_гора

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Schachmatt.
 
Fruška Gora
Naziv nacionalnog parka potiče od naziva istoimene planine, a naziv Fruška gora nosi u svom pridevskom obliku etnik „Frug“ u značenju Franak (proto-Francuz) tj. Frigijac (iz Male Azije) sa kojim rečima je, uostalom, etimološki srodna, te na taj način ime ove planine čuva uspomenu na zajednice davno nestale iz ovih krajeva.[3]
https://sr.m.wikipedia.org/sr-el/Национални_парк_Фрушка_гора

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Schachmatt.

Lotus ich wünsche von dir einen Thread der uns eine plausible Geschichtserklärung abliefert :D
 
Kenne einige Torbeschen, sind sehr nette Menschen. Verstehe aber immer noch nicht als was sie sich fühlen und inwiefern sie mit den Pomaken verwandt sind.
 
The Macedonian Muslims (Macedonian: Македонци-муслимани, Makedonci-muslimani), also known as Muslim Macedonians or Torbeš (the latter name is slightly pejorative), are a minority religious group within the community of ethnic Macedonians who are Muslims (primarily Sunni, although Sufism is widespread among the population), although not all espouse a Macedonian national identity. They have been culturally distinct from the majority Orthodox Christian Slavic Macedonian community for centuries, and are linguistically distinct from the larger Muslim ethnic groups in Macedonia: the Albanians and Turks.
[h=2]Islamification[/h]The Macedonian Muslims are largely the descendants of Orthodox Christian Slavs from the region of Macedoniawho converted to Islam during the centuries when the Ottoman Empire ruled the Balkans. The main factor prompting their conversion was manifold. Non-Muslims were generally regarded by the state and Ottoman society as being of a subordinate status. They were treated differently under the legal system, were subjected to the jizya, a tax that ensured non-Muslims protection by the state and relieved them from military duties. Nevertheless, the payment of the jizya cannot be taken as the only reason for conversion. Muslims also had to pay an obligatory but lesser tax called zakat every year. Converts also benefited from the prestige accorded to the religion of the ruling class of the empire - in practice, Christianity was the religion of a conquered class.[SUP][4][/SUP] In addition, the various Sufi orders (like the Khalwati, Rifa'is and Bektashis) all played a role in the conversion of the Macedonian Slav population.
[h=2]Areas of settlement[/h]
The largest concentration of Macedonian Muslims can be found in Western Macedonia and Eastern Albania. TheCentar Župa Municipality is populated by a large number of Macedonian Muslims although for personal reasons most of the population chooses to identify as Turks. Most of the villages in the Centar Župa and Debar regions are populated by Macedonian Muslims. The Struga municipality also holds a large number of Macedonian Muslims who are primarily concentrated in the large village of Labuništa. Further North in the Debar region many of the surrounding villages are inhabited by Macedonian Muslims. The Dolna Reka region is also primarily populated by Macedonian Muslims. They form the remainder of the population which emigrated to Turkey in the 1950's and 1960's. Places such as Rostuša and Tetovo also have large Macedonian Mulsim populations. Most of the Turkish population along the Western Macedonian border are in fact Macedonian Muslims. Another large concentration of Macedonian Muslims is in the so called Torbešija which is just south of Skopje. There are also major concentrations of Macedonian Muslims in the central region of the Republic of Macedonia, surrounding thePlasnica municipality and the Dolneni municipality.
The Macedonian Muslim population of Albania and Kosovo can be primarily found along the Macedonian border. A large proportion of the Gorani population identify as Macedonians. There have been reports that Macedonian language textbooks have been distributed in Kosovo to Gorani school students.
[h=2]Demographics[/h]The exact numbers of Macedonian Muslims are not easy to establish. The writer Ivo Banac estimates that in the old Kingdom of Yugoslavia, before World War II, the Macedonian Muslim population stood at around 27,000. Subsequent censuses have produced dramatically varying figures: 1,591 in 1953, 3,002 in 1961, 1,248 in 1971 and 39,355 in 1981. Commentators have suggested that the latter figure includes many who previously identified themselves as Turks. Meanwhile the Association of Macedonian Muslims has claimed that since World War II more than 70,000 Macedonian Muslims have been assimilated by other Muslim groups, most notably the Albanians[SUP][6][/SUP] (see Albanization).
It can be estimated from the 43,534 Turks in Western Macedonia, the Studeničani municipality, Torbesija area and Dolneni municipality that over 75% are Macedonian Muslims. Along with 5 to 10% of both the Macedonian and Albanian populations in Western Macedonia which equates to between 23,736 and 47,472. It can be estimated that the Macedonian Muslim population in the Republic of Macedonia between 55,000 and 80,000.
[h=2]Language and ethnic affiliation[/h]Like their Christian ethnic kin, Macedonian Muslims speak the Macedonian language as their first language. Despite their common language and racial heritage, it is almost unheard of for Macedonian Muslims intermarry with Macedonian Orthodox. Macedonian ethnologists do not consider the Muslim Slavs a separate ethnic group from the Christian Macedonian Slavs, but instead a religious minority within the Macedonian Slav ethnic community. Intermarriage with the country's other Muslim groups (Albanians and Turks) are much more accepted, given the bonds of a common religion and history.
Some Turkish ethnologists have claimed that the Macedonian Muslims are in fact Slavicized Turks, although this interpretation is not widely supported. The Macedonian writer Jakim Sinadinovski has similarly claimed that the Macedonian Muslims are not, in fact, Slavic Macedonians; this prompted a strong reaction when his thesis was first published in 1988.
When the Socialist Republic of Macedonia was established in 1944, the Yugoslav government encouraged the Macedonian Muslims to adopt an ethnic Macedonian identity.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP] This has since led to some tensions with the Macedonian Christian community over the widespread association between Macedonian national identity and adherence to the Macedonian Orthodox Church.
[h=2]Political activities[/h]The principal outlet for Macedonian Muslim political activities has been the Association of Macedonian Muslims. It was established in 1970 with the support of the authorities, probably as a means of keeping Macedonian Muslim aspirations in control.
The fear of assimilation into the Albanian Muslim community has been a significant factor in Macedonian Muslim politics, amplified by the tendency of some Macedonian Muslims to vote for Albanian candidates. In 1990, the chairman of the Macedonian Muslims organization, Riza Memedovski, sent an open letter to the Chairman of the Party for Democratic Prosperity of Macedonia, accusing the party of using religion to promote the Albanisation of the Macedonian Muslims. A controversy broke out in 1995 when the Albanian-dominated Meshihat or council of the Islamic community in Macedonia declared that Albanian was the official language of Muslims in Macedonia. The decision prompted protests from the leaders of the Macedonian Muslim community.
[h=2]Occupation[/h]Many Macedonian Muslims are involved in agriculture, and also work abroad. Macedonian Muslims are well-known as fresco-painters, wood carvers and mosaic-makers. In the past few decades large numbers of Macedonian Muslims have emigrated to Western Europe and North America.
 
Die Muslime in Mazedonien sollen sich von mir aus nennen wie sie wollen.
Ob sie sich als ethnische Mazedonier mit islamischen Glauben sehen wie die grosse Mehrheit oder als eigenständige Torbeschen ist scheissegal, es gibt sogar welche die sich als Bosniaken sehen obwohl sie keinerlei Verbindungen zu Bosnien haben.

Und der Schwachsinn von wegen Bogomilen etc. ist auch nur ein Märchen sonst nichts.
Die Völker auf dem Balkan sind alle Mischvölker, aus denen hätte man vor dem Nationbuilding alles formen können. Deswegen gibt es Leute die verschiedenen Nationen angehören sie aber vor Jahrhunderten noch zum selben Stamm/Volk gehörten.

Auch die ethnischen Mazedonier sind eine Mischung aus mehreren Stämmen und Volksgruppen seien es Drugobiten, Strymjanen, Berziten, Baiouniten, Shopen und etliche weitere. Nur hat sich im laufe der Zeit ein gemeinsames Nationalbewusstsein entwickelt, nicht zuletzt auch als Trotzreaktion gegenüber der Versuche der Nachbarn zur Einbindung/Assimilation in ihren Nationen. Deswegen sollte der Wunsch der Muslime Mazedoniens respektiert werden sich als selbständige Ethnie oder als ethnische Mazedonier zu sehen.
 
also für mich sind das bosnier...achja sie ist auch muslimisch...ich weiss ja nicht welchen glauben unsere torbeschen haben:D

Klar.

Skordisker (in Bosnien) kamen wie der Name verrät aus Scordus (lat. für Schargebirge), zur Zeit der Skordisker lebten auf Schargebirge die Bryger/Phryger (übersetzt Bergler) genau wie Goranen=Bergler, oder auch Scharbergler.

In Antiquity, the mountains were known as Scardus, Scodrus, or Scordus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Šar_Mountains



Pannonien/Illyrien vor dem Slawensturm:

Scordisci (grau) und Bryges (pink).
Illyrians.jpg





Bogumili/Bogumilen (man nannte die Bogumilen auch Babunen, Torbeschen oder Goranen. (Vladeta Jerotić)

„Nazivani su i Babunima, po makedonskoj planini Babuni, i Torbešima ili Goranima“. (Vladeta Jerotić)
http://www.princip.info/2014/03/26/bogumili-u-srednjevekovnoj-srbiji/#

Skordisker/Bosniaken, Torbeschen und Goranen alles Brudervölker.

:bih4::al3:
 
Ah halt endlich die Fresse, muslimischer Slawenjunge :lol:

Die Bogumilen waren eine religiöse Sekte und kein homogenes Volk du Spaten, Priester Bogumil war der Oberslawe schlechthin.
 
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